by thirdwitness 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Nevertheless, Jehovah’s Witnesses are usually more restrictive in their describing somebody as an apostate, because they do not give this name to someone who merely leaves his religion, but only to those whom, after leaving it, attacks it publicly.
Let me ask you this Third, if you voluntarily left believeing in something because you learned it to be false, wouldn't you wan't to share that with others? I hardly consider that an "attack".
j
An apostate to the WTS is any MEMBER who disagrees with them and the member soon finds he/she is no longer a member BUT an Apostate and under the control of demons...not by choice but because the WTS say so!.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/9363363/inside_scientology
Scientology's critics comprise a sizable network of ex-members (or "apostates," in church parlance), academics and independent free-speech and human-rights activists like Wachter, who have declared war on the group by posting a significant amount of previously unknown information on the Internet. This includes scans of controversial memos, photographs and legal briefs, as well as testimonials from disillusioned former members, including some high-ranking members of its Sea Organization. All paint the church in a negative, even abusive, light.
When asked what, if anything, posted by the apostates is true, Mike Rinder, the fifty-year-old director of the Church of Scientology International's legal and public-relations wing, known as the Office of Special Affairs, says bluntly, "It's all bullshit, pretty much."
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There will always be schisms in any religious group, as well as people who, upon leaving their faith, decide to "purge" themselves of their experiences. This is particularly true in the case of members of so-called new religions, which often demand total commitment from their members. Scientology is one of these religions.
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A chief complaint is that reporters, eager for a story, take the words of lapsed members as gospel. Davis says Scientology gets little credit for the success of its social-betterment programs, which include Narconon and also literacy and educational programs. "Look around," says Davis. "People are out here busting their butt every day to make a difference. And one guy who leaves because he wants to go to the movies gets to characterize the whole organization? That sucks."
Scientologists do not look kindly on critics, particularly those who were once devout. Apostasy, which in Scientology means speaking out against the church in any public forum, is considered to be the highest form of treason. This is one of the most serious "suppressive acts," and those who apostatize are immediately branded as "Suppressive Persons," or SPs. Scientologists are taught that SPs are evil -- Hitler was an SP, says Rinder. Indeed, Hubbard believed that a full 2.5 percent of the population was "suppressive." As he wrote in the Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary, a suppressive person is someone who "goofs up or vilifies any effort to help anybody and particularly knife with violence anything calculated to make human beings more powerful or more intelligent."
Given this viewpoint, I wonder why anyone with connections to Scientology would critique them publicly. "Makes them famous," Rinder says. "They do it for their fifteen minutes."
Scientology has been extremely effective at attacking its defectors, often destroying their credibility entirely, a policy that observers call "dead agenting." Some of the church's highest-profile critics say they have been on the receiving end of this policy. In the past six years, Tory Christman claims, the church has spread lies about her on the Internet, filed suit against her for violating an injunction for picketing on church property and attempted to get her fired from her job. Rinder dismisses Christman as a "wacko" and says her allegations are "absolute bullshit."
When Christman split from the church, her husband and most of her friends -- all of them Scientologists -- refused to talk to her again. Apostates are not just discredited from the church; they are also excommunicated, isolated from their loved ones who, under Scientology rules, must sever or "disconnect" from them. Scientology defines those associated with Suppressive People as "Potential Trouble Sources," or PTS.
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"How are you going to judge what is and isn't the worst tenets and violations of the Church of Scientology?" Rinder asks. "You aren't a Scientologist." Complaints about these policies, he adds, "come from people who aren't Scientologists [anymore]. What do they give a shit for anymore? They left!"
MJ - that is an amazing article. You could just replace Scientology with Jehovah's witnesses and it would fit perfectly - except the leadership would never say publicly that we 'would not give a shit'. He would only say that privately. [snicker]
Jeff
I actually tried to read this post, and couldn't make much sense of most of it. This paragraph, for instance:
Professor Kliever compares the dynamics of separation of the apostate of a religious group which before he loved with a full divorce of bitterness. As much the marriage as the religion requires a high degree of commitment and implication; whichever greater it is the implication, more traumatic the rupture; the more the commitment, the more urgent has lasted is the necessity to blame to the other of the failure of the relation. Those that have been members of new religious movements during long time and been very have implied but that later they feel disillusioned with his religion, usually throw all the fault to their previous coreligionists or the religious organization in general. As Gordon explains the investigator of religious subjects Melton (in his Brainwashing book and the Cults: The Rise and Fall of to Theory [the washing of brain and the sects: the ascent and fall of the theory], 1999), magnify small lack until turning them enormous badnesses, they turn personal deceptions malicious treasons, and they will even count incredible falsifications with so damaging to its previous religion.
It hardly flows, does it? I think thirdwitness could do with a proofreader for his posts.
To answer the question posed, around 35% of the jws I know joined from other religions, so they are all apostates, and I was a nomial member of the Church of England, so I became one when I joined the jws.
I just hope we are not spending way too much of our energy on thirdwitness, what's the use.
Give him time, he is a smart dood, he knows he is in a cult but at the present time he sees no way out.
He might not have a place to go if he leaves Bethel or skills to make a living in the real world.
Don't worry 3W eventually things will work out for you.
Cult apologists and defenders like Lonnie Kliever and J. Gordon Melton are known to have been paid by groups like Church of Scientology, Aum Shinrykio, The Family, Church Universal and Triumphant, to write favorable articles supporting these religions. Wonder if Jehovah's Witnesses paid them too.
Re: Who is an Apostate?
I am by someone's definition. And I don't care
Y'all are kinda funny looking to me,.....
;-)
The problem as I see it is the WT sets the limits on what a person can beleive between zero and nothing.
As a result of this very tight situation there are probably very many people falsly accused of being Apostate when in fact they are really loyal JWs.
Imagine the scholarly work by some people here Leoloa, AlanF , Blondie,Amazing1914 just to name a few. The way the JWs are going the religion will become more and more stupid.
As for you 3rd Witness I am still waiting for an explanation on why you say the day year rule should be used in daniel nine because the christian church interpreted daniel nine without the day -year for centuries? You would be in a better position to answer some of these questions with the scholarly work here.
As they say a smart man changes his mind sometimes a fool never.
Another Thread by 3rd Troll..Cut & Paste..Push the limits,after he`s been warned..This Idiot will continue until he`s been axed..Then he`s gonna whine,under another account..How many times has this been repeated over the life of this board??..3RD troll has outlived his usefullness as an example of WBTS BS..It`s time to send him to the "Troll Glue Factory"...OUTLAW
