A True Scholar In Our Midst, Leolaia

by Skoshi 92 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • VM44

    Hey people!!!

    How about we just say a reasonable amount of praise is OK when warranted and not overdone and just leave it at that?


  • proplog2


    I'm all for dropping this discussion and I thought my apology to Leolea would allow a graceful exit. But Jgnat and AlanF wanted to bite me.

    By the way I do have the popular T-shirt that says "#1 Dad". I would like to think it shrunk but I probably got too big for it.

  • dilaceratus
    Proplog2: And where are those who would repudiate you for using that kind of terminology? Not one person here appears to disagree with your behavior enough to call you on it.

    I can't believe more people haven't stepped up to take issue with AlanF's restraint in only calling you a piece of shit.

    The mass of Jehovah's Witnesses (and other Fundamentalist groups) are lazy and superficial thinkers, prepared to accept even the shabbiest defenses of the stupidest ideas rather than make a cursory investigation into their beliefs and actions. This results in Witnesses (and ex-Witnesses) who have spent decades supposedly dedicated to preaching Bible truth to others who know no more about the actual content and history of the Bible than a college freshman taking their first World Literature class.

    Unfortunately for the intellectual content of this board, it also results in threads with over a thousand posts where the farcical Witness theology is endlessly examined and rebutted to deaf ears, but threads such as Leolaia has started and contributed to-- which should be fascinating to those sincerely interested in the Bible-- often get no more intelligent response than, "This looks really interesting. I'm saving it to read later."

    Astonishingly, even the colossally thick Thirdwitness (on another board he contributes to), in nursing his wounds, stated that Leolaia was the only one who had treated him courteously, despite the fact that she proved him the idiot on every occasion on which they disagreed. Even more incredibly, she was gracious in her response to you.

    One of the ways in which Jehovah's Witnesses are liars is in pretending an expertise and research experience with the Bible that they do not possess. I haven't any clue as to why Leolaia might care to put as much work into presenting her essays here as she does, but they offer an invaluable resource for former Witnesses to become exposed to how scholars other than the celebrated Watchtower Bible and Tract Society hacks approach their topic: thoroughly, conscientiously, and without pre-conceived prejudice. That this necessitates posts of some length, complexity of language, examination of possible interpretation, and without a simple-minded payoff of interpretation ought not to be intimidating, but invigorating, to minds that have occupied their life with the Bible, and have a real interest in its construction.

  • bebu

    Well I, for one, am comforted in a small way by Leo's admission that all those posts take several hours of writing. She is so prolific, I can't grasp how anyone could put out such well thought-out and researched posts with such seeming ease. I enjoy her writing--even the post in this thread explaining her appreciation is enjoyable.

    Leo, now that I know that it isn't always so easy for you, you seem a little bit more human! (Truly, it makes me appreciate your efforts even more.)


    Going off to look up Leo's WT covers which I missed...

    And adding that I also appreciate the contributions of Narkissos, who is a great pairing with Leo on this board.

  • Leolaia

    My last message actually got cut-off midway since I was writing in an internet cafe on a machine that shuts down after 15 minutes (like this one now), so I didn't get to complete my thought.

    As Narkissos noted, most of what I post is not available online and typically for a researched post I might use at least 10 books from my library, if not more...and although much of the material is supported by lengthy excerpts from primary sources, I spend a lot of time and space in my lengthy posts trying to lay out the argument and evidence in my own words, and show the logic and reasoning behind my views. Several months back skyman complained shrilly about this, but it is how I write and mostly it is an effort to explain WHY I perfer one exegesis over another, or why I would view a text as fitting into a given literary or historical context, etc. Much of this I enjoy in trying to show how critical thinking skills can be applied to biblical study....and even for those who lose all interest in the Bible after leaving the JWs, to show why I find the Bible to still be such a captivating and interesting book. But most impotantly, I like to get scholarly and critical views voiced that probably would not be heard in this forum, or even discussed much on the internet. I usually endeavor to provide the literary evidence with my posts so that you don't just take my word for it but that you can investigate it for myself, and if you disagree, engage with the texts and start a discussion.

    As I said before, I spend many long hours on the research threads...the Judas one took nearly a week to complete. And as dilacretus noted, such threads rarely attain many comments or engender a discussion. And sometimes I then feel like the time invested wasn't worth it, especially if the thread then gets buried or receives little notice. As one poster (I think it was hooberus) suggested, maybe some other arena or format might be more appropriate...maybe a blog perhaps? But for now, contrary to proplog's general sentiment, I feel that a "thank you" thread -- as opposed to a more vain "Who's your favorite poster" thread -- has its place, because it is nice to be thanked after investing the time otherwise.

  • jgnat

    I've noticed, Leolaia, that thoughtful posts DON'T get as many responses. I see the same thing happens with Lady Lee's posts. I know my personal reaction to your material is deep thought, and it usually takes several days to compose a reasoned response. Of course, several days is aeons on DB time. But it's GOOD we think things through, don't you think?

    So yes, the discussion board format may not be the best, where flaming threads are formed in the heat of the moment, flare up and die, all within hours.

    But I'm grateful nevertheless that you contribute here. Otherwise I would not know of your work.

    Much of this I enjoy in trying to show how critical thinking skills can be applied to biblical study

    Blondie contributes the same way with her critique of the weekly study. In THAT way, posters like you and Blondie and Lady Lee provide an invaluable service, by showing the way to the exiting Witness, how to THINK.

  • AuldSoul


    ...such threads rarely attain many comments or engender a discussion.

    I don't think is so much a reflection on how little your thoughts are appreciated as it is a reflection of how little is left to say on the subjects you research. I thoroughly enjoy your researched threads. But I don't feel qualified to comment on them beyond expressions of appreciation for the ideas you have expressed or asking questions. I am not yet a scholar, but I aspire to be. I am still only a fledgling "scholar-in-training."

    I think this forum is blessed to have posters of your caliber.

    I believe some think that the "Discussion" part of "Discussion Forum" means something other than what the word means. This is not really a chat room. It is a discussion forum. While fluff threads are fun (and I join in on those, too) they are not the point of this forum, they are the seasoning. Your posts are an example of what a good discussion forum should produce. Any who don't approve of your posts would do well to look up the words "discussion" and "forum" in a dictionary.


  • AuldSoul
    Forscher: The scholarships I turned down oh so many years ago were for study in linguistics...


    AuldSoul (of the "Wondering If That Epithet Sent Ozziepost to His Dictionary to Determine Whether I Should Be Punished" class)

  • slimboyfat


    I can't believe you feel you have to justify the way you post. Your effort is much appreciated - because it results in very interesting presentations of research on material that is either hard to find, or that others simply don't have the time or inclination to wade through. Particularly I have enjoyed your input on the Coptic John 1:1, the Cross/Stake thread and the thread on excerpts from the Golden Age magazine. You also played a crucial role in bringing interesting aspects of Rutherford's private life to light.

    I fear that you will one day come to the conclusion that your talents are not properly appreciated on this forum, and if some of the posts in this thread tend to push you in that direction then the one who has made those stupid comments is frankly an idiot.

    I think a blog is a great idea, and it could be maintained alongside your contributions to the forum rather than instead of them.


  • jgnat
    I think a blog is a great idea, and it could be maintained alongside your contributions to the forum rather than instead of them.

    Yes, yes! AND you could organize them in a fashion where they don't get lost in the crowd. I vote for a Leolaia blog, too.

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