The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness 1380 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    Comments on Lesson Nine: Day-Year Principle Desmond Ford
    Adventist Today, CA - 8 hours ago
    ... Today it is still held by Jehovah’s Witnesses who thereby come up with Christ’s invisible return to earth in 1914 to set his seal on the Watchtower ... Comments on Lesson Nine: Day-Year Principle Desmond Ford

    A former Seventh-day Adventist Conference president, Kai Arasola, wrote his Ph.D. dissertation on The End of Historicism commenting upon the demise of the year-day principle. Today it is still held by Jehovah’s Witnesses who thereby come up with Christ’s invisible return to earth in 1914 to set his seal on the Watchtower organization. Among Bible scholars, the theory has been defunct for over 100 years. Jehovah’s Witnesses borrowed it from Adventists. It is not widely known that William Miller had 15 ways of arriving at 1844. No SDA teacher would ever invoke 14 of these today, and no true scholar can give adequate evidence for choosing to abide by the 15th argument—the year-day principle. Observe some of Miller’s other arguments: Lev 26:18 :…I will punish you for your sins seven times over. Deut 15:1: At the end of every seven years you must cancel debts Eze 39:9,10: … for seven years they will use them for fuel… Ex 31:13-17 … you must observe my Sabbaths… Other passages used were Lev 25:8-13; Hos 6:1-3; Dan 12:11-13; Rev 9:5;11:3; 12:6,14; 13:18 Today, only a mad genius would attempt to arrive at 1843 by the foregoing. Miller believed the earth would be 6000 years old by 1843, and his other chronological computations were similarly mysterious, including his use of Dan 8:14. Concerning Miller’s approach to exegesis, Arasola says: “It almost totally ignores the original context and combines texts together in a rather flaccid fashion, and it shows a blind faith in the English translation.” p. 100 SDAs have done similarly, relying on the proof-text method until the second half of the 20th century when some scholars diverged to more correct approaches. None of this is meant to condemn Miller as a man. He was a devout Christian, and God used him despite his errors. Is it not still the same with the best of us? We must ever keep in mind that in Miller’s time the theological world was drunk with a post-millennial optimism which only two World Wars would fully destroy. The providential purpose in the Miller movement was to challenge the popular view that the world would be converted before Christ came. We do not glorify God by clinging to the errors of our fathers. The year-day principle may for centuries have been a permitted crutch for those longing to see Christ return, but today, with our knowledge of inaugurated and consummated eschatology, there is no need for it. Consider the words found in the famous Lange Commentary, written over a century ago: …no clear instance can be adduced of the use of a “day” in Scriptural prophecy for an exact year, where the typical character of the time is not immediately expressed as being limited to that particular case, much less is there any intimation that such a rule is to apply to prophecy in general . To admit such a principle in Biblical interpretation is to abandon all precision in the use of language. Daniel, p.87. The Glacier View Consensus statement admitted that there is no clear statement in the Bible setting forth the year-day principle. Why then is it now still invoked? It is done in desperation, and the arguments brought forth are similarly desperate. For example, it is argued in the lesson that Dan 9 uses the year-day principle. But “days” are never mentioned in this prophecy, and the Christian church interpreted it for long centuries before the year-day principle surfaced. (See the SDA Encyclopedia p. 1440 for the evidence that the principle was the product , not of Bible times, but long afterwards.) In Numbers 14:34 the prophetic part of the verse uses years for years. They are literal, and not the symbol of anything else. If we were to apply the year-day principle to Num 14:34 the result would be an anticipated fourteen thousand, four hundred years of wandering, not forty. In Ezekiel 4:6 we have, not a symbolic prophecy, but a symbolic action. Ezekiel did not lie on his left side for 390 years, and on his right for forty. Not one of the dates deduced by the year-day principle will stand the test of investigation. See the report of the 1919 Bible conference which rejected the 538 to 1798 scenario, and Oct 11, 1840. Why do we not listen to and obey the words of our Lord; “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.” Acts l:7 ? The demise of this principle in the minds of its holders is sure once they search history for the importance of the dates supposedly referred to in the time prophecies, such as 538, 1798, 1840, 1844. ALL OF THEM ARE WITHOUT BIBLICAL OR HISTORICAL SUPPORT. Search and see. P.S. The stratagem suggested on p. 108 that the word “concerning” has no rightful place in 8:13 and that therefore the period of the 2300 evening-mornings covers from the time of Medo-Persia is one I myself entertained till forced to abandon it.. The translators were correct in inserting this word because the heart of the vision concerns the work of the little horn set forth in vs 8-13. Neither Medo-Persia nor Greece are central to this vision.

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard
    Comments on Lesson Nine: Day-Year Principle Desmond Ford

    Adventist Today, CA - 8 hours ago

    ... Today it is still held by Jehovah’s Witnesses who thereby come up with Christ’s invisible return to earth in 1914 to set his seal on the Watchtower ... Comments on Lesson Nine: Day-Year Principle Desmond Ford
    A former Seventh-day Adventist Conference president, Kai Arasola, wrote his Ph.D. dissertation on The End of Historicism commenting upon the demise of the year-day principle. Today it is still held by Jehovah’s Witnesses who thereby come up with Christ’s invisible return to earth in 1914 to set his seal on the Watchtower organization. Among Bible scholars, the theory has been defunct for over 100 years. Jehovah’s Witnesses borrowed it from Adventists.

    William Miller adventist day for year 1914 Danny Haszard Daniel Haszard watchtower Jehovah Jehovah witnesses Bangor Maine kingdom Hall

    Ahhh let me get my keywords in this is priceless

  • fjtoth
    fjtoth

    VM44,

    On the "1914 Generation" Watchtower cover, who is the man in the upper right hand corner?

    That's John Errichetti. He was a missionary in Alaska who got called to Brooklyn due to health problems, I believe.

    Frank

  • barry
    barry


    Danny Im the SDA authority here but Im going to let you off this time. Des Ford is a great scholar and well known among SDAs.
    Des has two doctorates in theology he is a fine christian.
    I remember once Des said Its just as important for a christian to think as it is for him to pray. And also truth is rarely found in times of religious fervour.
    My Mum went to college with Des

  • fjtoth
    fjtoth

    Jehovah’s Witnesses borrowed it from Adventists.

    Actually, they borrowed it from the "Second Adventists," not the "Seventh-Day Adventists." More precisely, the Watchtower STOLE instead of borrowing since they give credit to Russell instead of the true originators of the silly chronology concept.

    Frank

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard
    Danny Im the SDA authority here but Im going to let you off this time. Des Ford is a great scholar and well known among SDAs. Des has two doctorates in theology

    My Mum went to college with Des

    Roger that mate! This whole millerite adventist JW 1914 connection just blows me away

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Thirdwitness,

    How can 1 Tim. 6:16 be referring to Jesus rather than God? "...whom not one of men has seen..." But men HAVE seen Jesus but have never seen the Father (in the past or now). See 1 Tim. 3:16 Now compare 1 Tim. 1:17 with 6:16. So "the world would never again literally behold or see Jesus again" finds no support in 1 Tim. 6:16.

  • barry
    barry

    Here is another artical on the day year rule by an Adventist. I wonder if 3rd witness might like to comment? http://www.spectrummagazine.org/onlinecommunity/sabbathschool/060821davis.html

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Flash

    Fell though? No, it was abandoned because of fear by the GB. The masters apparent 'delaying' scared them. Even though Jesus warned us multiple times though illustrations and with plain speech, His returning would much longer than His apostles or we would think...The GB showed a lack of faith. The Sign is in full bloom and they shrink back! Matthew 24: 32 ~ 34
    Matthew 25: 5, 6 5 "While the bridegroom was delaying, they all nodded and went to sleep.
    6 Right in the middle of the night there arose a cry, Here is the bridegroom! Be on your way out to meet him."

    Matthew 25: 19

    19 "After a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them." ( Matthew 24: 48 ~ 51, Luke 12: 45 ~ 48 )

    Ummm, I think you have that back-to-front. According to WT theology (check it on your CD-ROM), the master settled accounts with his slaves shortly after 1914 (1918/19), and the bridegroom's 'delay' and the virgins' sleepiness was during the centuries before he 'arrived' in 1914. While you are probably right that the leadership was fearful, it wasn't over the delay of Jesus' 'return' since he's understood to have returned in 1914, but rather over how ludicrously untenable the 'generation' idea had become. Any 'delay' or wait is with regard to Jesus' acting at Armageddon.

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Ever get the feeling that Bethel reads this site?

    Check out the top sermon on www.watchtower.org!

    steve

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