National Healthcare for the USA

by sammielee24 348 Replies latest jw friends

    The unions that are pushing for national health are the same unions that negotiated ever increasing and expanding health and welfare programs

    First of all welfare is a government program. It's not something Unions work to expand or shrink. A Union would like to keep it's members working and therefore keep them off welfare.

    Expanding healthcare is a good thing =) If a person has access to doctors and medical staff they are much more likely to get preventative care. This prevents many people from ending up in the painful, crippling, end stages of diseases. Healthy people are able to work longer and later in their life. As an added bonus access to medical care stops/slows/prevents the spread of communicable diseases.

    Most countries that have national healthcare systems seem to be doing ok. When is the last time a country collapsed due to healtcare costs? Will the US be the first?

    they're entitled to be chained to a wall and left to rot and die

    As far as chaining people to the wall...ummm...yeah.. that's sounds like a fetish not a punishement from a 21st century court of law. Midieval times called and wants you to come back home. I bet you like watching the news reports on abu-grab prison ect

  • hamsterbait

    If you cannot feed your children, don't have any.

    Why should other people subsidize the sex life of people too stupid to use condoms, or keep their knees together.

    If you cannot afford to instal a sprinkler system in your home, then invest in a bucket.

    Why should other people pay to put out fires in a house they don't own.

    If you can't afford a lamp at night, stay inside.

    Why should other people pay to light your way home after dark.

    If you cannot afford a bodyguard, don't walk outside.

    Why should other people pay for police to protect you from attack?

    If you don't like the potholes in your street, buy some tarmac and a steamroller.

    Why should other people pay to pave a road they will never drive along?

    If you cannot afford to buy a cruise missile to help eliminate terrorists, build yourself a shelter in the back yard.

    Why should other people pay to defend your home?

    If a loved one is murdered, pay a private eye to find the killers, and the forensic costs.

    Why should others pay to find the killer of someone they have never met?

    If your child gets sick and needs a blood transfusion, refuse treatment.

    The state will make it a ward of court and pay for the treatment.

    Why should they be forced to pay for treatment they didn't ask for? JWs ain't so witless!!

    All these things are indeed paid for by other peoples money, also schools, national parks (some taxpayers can't afford a holiday to visit one) the main reason the US has no national health service (unlike EVERY other country in the developed world is the financial "threats" put on the political parties by pharmaceuticals and insurance.

    Bush even bowed to this pressure, when he tried to prevent elderly US citizens from going abraod to buy cheaper treatments.

    Of course the logical result of the anti arguments is a society where everyone has to ensure his own survival without any assistance from the state. ANARCHY.

    In this world, it would mean that the state is only there to ensure its own survival and propagation, not to help those who cannot afford to survive unassisted.


  • frozen one
    frozen one

    It's not something Unions work to expand or shrink.

    LOL! In that case big companies like AT&T or Verizon can't regulate the internet...

    Do you belong to a union? Ever been to a union meeting or rally? Read union newspapers? Where do you think a sizeable chunk of union dues go? Big companies aren't the only ones lobbying for causes or supporting candidates. I support most of the lobbying my union does and even some of the politicians they endorse/donate to.

    frozen one - proud of my union most of the time

  • sammielee24
    If you have a crappy job that doesn’t pay well, get another. Get some training, go to school, whatever. It really is up to you! Millions have done it… Why can’t you? I say that you don’t because you don’t want to, not because you can’t. I’ve heard all the excuses. My brother used ‘em all and he’s still a bum that sucks off the Gov’t teat every month.

    Sailor - while I understand that you may have an issue with what you see as 'welfare' people using any system, I just don't get where you and everyone else keep saying that a national system is full of nothing but bums and that you will be the sole provider for them using medical services and facilities. In the Canadian system which I was raised in and worked in, every single person who works pays taxes toward national healthcare - as do employers. It is percentage of your wage - so no one is sucking the life out of anyone. If I make ten bucks an hour at Walmart then the taxes that I pay to the government are included in the healthcare bucket. If I make seventy five bucks an hour at B&D then I pay a percentage of that in taxes to the same government. No one is getting a 'free' ride. The same people who currently use your medicaid or medicare will be the same people who use it then, but the people who right now cannot afford insurance, would receive healthcare through their tax dollars.

    Your comment regarding any job that doesn't pay well isn't realistic. The vast majority of jobs are in the range of $20-40,000 per year and that is where the highest rate of employed people have NO insurance or are under insured because they simply do not have the money for payments. Job after job is being sent out of the country and the highest number of jobs created are in the service sector - ie - Jack in the Box. Every person is not capable nor able to achieve the goals that you may have set for yourself but they remain willing to work and pay their way. Sometimes they cannot and that does not make them leeches on society.

    I asked about the jail system simply for one reason. If we insist the incarcerated 2.1 million people in the USA have the right to healthcare while in prison, then why do we feel justified in punishing those who are not criminals by refusing them the same rights? Again, if we don't apply that right to prisoners, then the possibility of increased risk of disease to the general population when they get out, has increased tenfold. Your tax dollars currently go toward those 2.1 million in prison who are provided with healthcare yet you decry extending healthcare to those 45 million people, more than half of whom are wage earners, that same privilege or right.


  • frozen one
    frozen one

    Clever how you left out part of the sentence. Here is what I actually wrote:

    health and welfare programs for employees and their families with the same companies

    Note I plainly stated unions negotiate for health and welfare benefits with companies. Just so you know, the word "welfare" is not exclusive to government. In the working world "welfare" relates to things like vacation time, overtime, workplace safety, etc. You know, employee welfare. Some unions use "well being" instead of "welfare."

    Its not nice to snip portions of a sentence and use it out of context. That practice is common to organizations like the watchtower society though.


    LOL! In that case big companies like AT&T or Verizon can't regulate the internet...

    I just don't think you get the point... Unions are one thing. Corporations are another.

    Unions can lobby congress... Corporations can lobby congress.

    Unions are member funded organizations that represent WORKERS.

    Corporations are businesses that that work for shareholders.

    They are not the same thing. Make a note of it on a yellow sticky and paste on your computer screen.

    Yes I have been in a Union. Also, it's only fair to point out that many Unions including a LOT of airline workers unions have been taking pay cuts. Some union workers are back at their 1975 pay levels. That's right 1975 over 30 yrs ago. Still even with the pay cuts, due to healthcare (and other factors) jobs keep working overseas.

  • sammielee24
    Life's necessities are :Food, clothing, shelter. Healthcare comes in a distant fourth.

    I think they are linked together in ways that cannot be so easily defined. My uncle is dying as we speak - he has fought cancer for a number of years and slipped into a coma. He is in a Canadian hospital right now. Just as he slipped into his coma, my aunt suffered a heart attack at his bedside and was ambulated to a major hospital for heart surgery. My uncle no longer has any concept of food or clothing. Shelter is the hospital he is dying in but the most important thing for him at this moment is the healthcare that he is receiving. Ditto for my aunt. The support she will need after her surgery both mentally and physically will be there for her - and that is not a distant necessity.

    A good friend of mine who just turned 59 had a colonoscopy last year. She thought she was out of the woods...but she was just diagnosed with cancer in both lungs. She is at home, pumped up full of meds. In asking these questions of her - she has no interest in food. Clothes mean nothing and she has shelter. The healthcare she receives cannot be severed from the other 3 life necessities, because the quality of life she has over the next few months has everything to do with that level of health care and very little else.

    No one has ever said there should be a 'free' ride for anyone. The Canadian system is built on a number of systems. Your basic immediate healthcare is provided for through your tax dollars. All of the people above, worked all of their lives but at least now, they are not shackled by the fear of all consuming debt and worry from not having the money for their care. In the Canadian healthcare system, cosmetic surgery is not paid for. Lasik surgery would not be paid for. Your physical exams are. Your heart surgery is. Your emergency room care is. Your blood work is. Many employers offer private benefits in addition to wages as incentives and these benefits cover things like eye glasses, dental work, chiropractic care, medical massages and so on. If you don't have additional benefits then you pay for those things. If you are low income or senior or a child, then those things will be covered through our health care. Additionally, if you have the money, you can also seek private medical health outside the country if you choose. Additionally, the government of Canada in conjunction with the hospitals of some northern USA states, will set up a system whereby the US hospitals will take on some of the patients that require various surgeries. This accomplishes a number of things - it reduces the backlog of patients in Canada and provides more $$ for the USA hospitals.


  • frozen one
    frozen one

    Corporations are businesses that that work for shareholders.

    And a lot of unions invest money in the stockmarket, particularly member's retirement funds, so unions are also shareholders. Billions and billions and billions of dollars. Please make a note of it.

    Unions recognize that taking paycuts are better than having a company go bankrupt. It's called common sense. A lot of employees are individual shareholders of the company they work for. Everyone knows that a bankrupt company's share value tanks so it is in everyone's interest that the company not just survive but thrive.

  • sammielee24
    Lady Lee, had to wait for at least a year (correct me if I'm wrong-I know someone will) or more for a freaking MRI

    This may happen to some people but to be fair, it does not happen to the majority in Canada. There are problems with any system but in a nationalized system, you still cannot argue the fact that people do not die because they do nothave any insurance. 18,000 people a year die in the USA because they do not have health insurance which means they do not get care. In any national system around the world, healthcare is available to all regardless of income, race, gender or geography. It may not be without some problems but there is far less stress in your life knowing full well that when you are sick, you can count on getting help no matter where you are or what your circumstance. sammieswife.

  • sammielee24

    HB - nicely put. That is the truth as it sits. sammieswife.

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