National Healthcare for the USA

by sammielee24 348 Replies latest jw friends

  • LDH
    LDH
    Many famous discoveries have been made in countries that have national health care systems. Laparoscopic gallbladder removal was pioneered in Canada. The CT scan was invented in England. The new treatment to cure juvenile diabetics by transplanting pancreatic cells was developed in Canada.

    I don't doubt this for one minute, never have.

    However what I want to know is, were all of these discoveries done on an altruistic basis, or was there a profit involved? If there was a profit involved, by a corporation, they should not be entitled to profit off of government monies.

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    Great insight Swalker. The stigma of not being able to afford health insurance is just that - a stigma. From many of the comments I've read in various forums, it seems that for some reason, people associate national healthcare as being equal to nations of lazy, poor, uneducated people. I agree with your comment that many people would be surprised if they knew just how many people in their own circle of friends and family struggle with health insurance and either have non or so little they still can't afford to use it. If you tell people, suddenly you are made to feel like a slug or a drain on society so people say nothing and live with the shame hoping no one finds out. sammieswife.

  • LDH
    LDH

    well how about this?

    Let's move forward with a National Healthcare agenda. Only, instead of it being MANDATORY let's make it VOLUNTARY and competitive with private insurance.

    Let's be very transparent with BOTH so that people will have choices and freedoms to decide what's best for their families. Ah, freedom, the principle this country was founded on!

    Then, if NHS is such a great deal, surely EVERYONE will elect to be on it, including those who can afford to pay for their own healthcare.

    Sound reasonable?

    Lisa

  • LDH
    LDH

    I guess not.

  • SWALKER
    SWALKER

    Life's necessities are :Food, clothing, shelter. Healthcare comes in a distant fourth.

    Break a leg and see if you think health care is a necessity or not!!!

    I'm all for anyone that wants to pay for their own private insurance to go right ahead. That shouldn't affect NHC at all...just like we have private schools, etc.

    Swalker

  • Sailor Ripley
    Sailor Ripley

    I tried to stay away from this thread, but I started reading. It’s the same argument since day one. Now, back to the last caller’s statement.

    Whoa, whoa, whoa... Hillary Clinton's plan would make my picking my own doctor and paying out of my own pocket, get this, ILLEGAL and therefore a punishable offense, maybe some jail time. Then I'd get to see if they do in fact provide healthcare inside the big house, assuming I wasn't stabbed by one of our fine, incarcerated citizens about whom I seemingly should be more concerned.

    How's that for Governmental Control? Still doesn't sound like Socialism? What more proof do you need?

    Why do Liberals always want to provide for everyone but they want to use MY checkbook to fund their philanthropy. I vote for an NHC plan for which only Liberals pay. You wanna help the poor so much you pay for it. Keep me out of your Idealistic Fantasy Island.

    Here’s my Fantasy Island wish: have anyone on welfare prove their inability to work or provide some value. If they can’t prove they are ill, then off to work they go. No work, no pay. It seems that people that are really ill would be strong proponents of this. Get the slackers off the payroll, which would make it much easier to get what is needed to those that truly need.

    If you have a crappy job that doesn’t pay well, get another. Get some training, go to school, whatever. It really is up to you! Millions have done it… Why can’t you? I say that you don’t because you don’t want to, not because you can’t. I’ve heard all the excuses. My brother used ‘em all and he’s still a bum that sucks off the Gov’t teat every month.

    I can’t get started on the poor, disadvantaged criminals in prison. God forbid we actually hold someone accountable for anything, ever.

    There's a little fodder for you. See you in a week.

  • SWALKER
    SWALKER

    SR:If you have a crappy job that doesn’t pay well, get another. Get some training, go to school, whatever. It really is up to you!

    Please try and educate yourself a little more. Apparently, you've missed the entire exodus of the major U.S. corporations moving their operations overseas because of the exorbitant cost (which includes the outrageous health care coverage they have to provide employees) of doing business here in the States. (Auto industry---latest example)

    It's not just about getting a better job, it's also about businesses being able to provide affordable health care...do your homework!!!

    No one is insisting on one certain plan at the present time, but something needs to be done and fast!!! Read the papers and see all the corporations laying off and moving overseas and one of the biggest complaints.... HEALTH CARE BENEFITS!!!!

    Swalker

  • LDH
    LDH
    No one is insisting on one certain plan at the present time, but something needs to be done and fast!!! Read the papers and see all the corporations laying off and moving overseas and one of the biggest complaints.... HEALTH CARE BENEFITS!!!!

    Here in Fresno county last quarter, we lost a private employer of 300 people who closed their doors. De Francesco brothers Tomato Processors.

    They cited 4 reasons they were forced to close.

    1. Health Care benefits
    2. cost of gasoline
    3. energy (PG&E)
    4. worker's comp

    All of these are legitimate cost concerns. Why only decry health care? Why not have a state run energy department like Mexico? (ooooh I could just see Bandai Bush's buddies doing the happy dance over this one!)

    Simple. State-run monopolies are more rife with waste than private corporations. At least private corporations have profit as one of their goals, which ensures that they are delivering as efficient a product as possible.

    Lisa

  • frozen one
    frozen one

    The unions that are pushing for national health are the same unions that negotiated ever increasing and expanding health and welfare programs for employees and their families with the same companies that are moving offshore because some companies can no longer afford the union's demands. Now that those unions have bled their employers dry, those unions are looking for another entity with even deeper pockets than say General Motors. Finding deeper pockets (in this case the feds) will do nothing to contain the constantly increasing costs of health care but will add millions of people to the entitlement class which is the ultimate goal of progressives.

    frozen one - proud union member for years and years.

  • wednesday
    wednesday


    We are going to HAVE TO fix our healthcare system at some point.

    If I have a job and I can afford my insurance, along with CO-pays and deductibles, etc., I want to keep it. That is getting harder b/c our CO-pays are high and deductibles are high. Also many hospitals are not providing services unless the CO pay or co-inurance is paid up front. they used to ok with billing you ,but more and more it is pay first or no MRI no xray, etc. My husband had a surgery a few years ago and they were badgering him about money on the way to surgery. They forced me to sign a paper saying we would make payments on the amount not paid by insurance before they would take him to surgery. We've have had to forgo needed treatments. Recently he needed pain relief. The doc was contracted by our insurance company, but the surgery center was not. We had to change docs b/c we could not afford the out of network payment for the surgery center. The doc would not help us find another doc, I had to take my husband to another doc (one I knew) so he could refer us to a doc and surgery center who was contracted with our plan) This is a nasty secret that many people do not know. They call to see if a docs office will "take" their insurance. The office says yes, or the radiology center says yes, or the surgery center says yes. What they mean is "yes" well take the insurance, but we are not contracted, i.e., we will bill you for what the insurance does not pay. It is scary out there. Dentists use this trick all the time. So the key word is : ARE YOU CONTRACTED WITH MY INSURANCE? Also, beware the anesthesiologist. They are seldom contracted with your plan, they do this on purpose. You seldom choose your anesthesiologist, they are just given to you. They are usually the one that works with the hospital or the doc. You will receive a bill from them and to your surprise, it won't be fully covered by your insurance b/c they are not contracted, they are out of net work. So many of them just basically are out of network for everyone that way they can receive a higher amount of money, they hope. Your insurance CO (when you complain about this) will tell you that "you chose' the anesthesiologist, but actually you did not. You were given one. So know they are going to make it your fault that the anesthesiologist is not contracted. You should know his stuff.

    Insurance is horrible, but it is all we have, now. Thaks to greedy lawyers, we are all suffering.

    I would not for one-second want the kind of care those on Medicare and especially Medicaid receive. Medicare does not have a terrible stigma, i.e., it is usually reserved for elderly, but also we have many disabled that are on it too. But Medicaid, well there is a definite stigma for that. Check and see with your docs and see how many of them actually will see either Medicare or Medicaid. It used to be fairly standard that all docs "took" Medicare, but not now. Many are "opting out." B/c of low benefits and just the hassle of dealing with the government. My own doc opted out b/c he said there was too much paperwork and if you made one little mistake, it was like dealing with the KGB. In the long gone past they may have received equal care, but not know. They seldom actually see a doctor, they see physician assistants, or maybe a nurse practitioner, or maybe just a medical assistant. They do get substandard care. They see docs just out of medical school who really are "practicing medicine" ( and don't tell me this does not happen, nursing students came in to"practice" starting IV's on my dying comatose father. When I found out-well I was livid. Also even though i have regular insurance, I recently was forced to see physican asistants, etc . This generally not provide a good level of care.(i did have one NP who was very good) There should be some kind of back up healthcare/dental care for persons who cannot afford a doc. I can't see a dentist now b/c well, you know how well dentistry is covered by insurance, a lot of it at 50%. I don't think I should have to pay for those who refuse to work when they can. Currently we have in our town a bunch of the katrina victims. They are all 'hanging out" at a local apartment complex. They have turned what used to be a decent complex into a Ghetto. Most of the original residents have or in process of moving. The complex was more or less safe until they moved in. Recently someone was held up at gun point while taking trash out to the dumpsite in daylight. One of them (katrina victims) was recently asked why they were not looking for a job and the reply was more or less, no way man, the government owes us this and we are going to get as much as we can. we are on vacation. Do I care or feel responsible if these people get healthcare-NO but b/c they ARE b/c they getting welfare, so they do have healthcare? Sucking off the government tit.

    Lady Lee, had to wait for at least a year (correct me if I'm wrong-I know someone will) or more for a freaking MRI. She was in really bad pain but could not get the drug she needed, not approved by her country. Thank Goodness she got her disability.

    Surely there is a healthcare system out there that will provide for those who truly can't afford it and allow for those who can to choose.

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