National Healthcare for the USA

by sammielee24 348 Replies latest jw friends

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    Personal stories mean nothing. You can always find someone at either end of the spectrum.

    You've been provided with credible information which you have chosed to ignore.

    Our healthcare system is broken.

    We just don't want to trade it in for a more broken one.

    Personal stories mean everything or do you discount rape victims, mental and physical abuse, sexual abuse and the millions of those personal stories that force us to change our way of thinking? Personal stories provide us with the insight into why change is needed and bring to light the suffering and tragedy of systems that are at times impossible to live with. Yes there are always stories from the other end of the spectrum but those won't solve the problems in this case simply because the lack of compassion or desire for change doesn't come from comfort - it is derived from desperation.

    I ignore nothing. I continue to post information that I have - if you choose to ignore it or devalue it because it does not meet your definiton of crediblity then that is your choice. Your issues of a dual type system have been addressed by the fact that this system exists in other countries so the notion of welfare is way off the mark. Have you used both national healthcare and the current system here of - you get medical attention if you have money? You admit the system is broken but you keep insisting that national healthcare is worse? It would be worse for the collection agencies and insurance companies and that goes without saying but is it actually worse overall?

    I found it interesting that the president of Iran in his interview with Mike Wallace on TV, brought up the fact that 1% of the US population is in prison - thats 2 million people - and that 45 million can't afford healthcare - yet we have spent a few trillion on occupying another country. I think that's something the rest of the world is wondering.

  • LDH
    LDH
    Personal stories mean everything or do you discount rape victims, mental and physical abuse, sexual abuse and the millions of those personal stories that force us to change our way of thinking? Personal stories provide us with the insight into why change is needed and bring to light the suffering and tragedy of systems that are at times impossible to live with. Yes there are always stories from the other end of the spectrum but those won't solve the problems in this case simply because the lack of compassion or desire for change doesn't come from comfort - it is derived from desperation.

    OK. Here's my personal story, let's see what it proves.

    Three years ago my husband was supposed to have a simple outpatient procedure. Instead of going home in four hours, he spent four WEEKS in the hospital, near death a couple of times.

    When all was said and done, the entire charade cost $135,000. Thanks to our great foresight and financial planning () we paid the entire $500 out of pocket max in one day from our overflowing checking account. My husband's employer picked up the rest.

    So there, you see? The system is not broken and does not need fixing. It works just fine. There is no change needed.

    So go ahead, enjoy sucking each other off instead of answering real questions. That's why this debate will never move ahead. You can't answer simple questions.

    Lisa

    More stories like that if you need 'em Class

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    My doctor is furious with the drug companies. What they practice borders on extortion.

    Aptly put. As far as I am aware, Canada uses the bulk buying system that most national systems use in procurring drugs for their citizens. That keeps costs low. Here, apparently this can't be done and it is more profitable for the drug companies to maintain their monopoly by disallowing it and force consumers to pay whatever they decide the cost is today. The number of prescribed drugs that has been stopped at the border has increased apparently by 70% and there are indeed warnings out there to people that their meds might not get through. Who does this hurt? Only the people who need the prescribed medication and have to find a way to pay for it and the drug companies. I continually hear that this is a 'free' market economy - but I'm only seeing selective 'free'. If a person wants to order from a reputable Canadian company to get their drugs for 1/3 the cost they pay here and they can do so, why so much objection by the drug companies and the government? Safer? There is no proof of that. There are unscrupulous doctors and pharmacies everywhere so when laws are passed that cost these citizens more money they don't have - where is their choice of finding the best value for the money in a free market society? swife.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    funkyderek, do you have any examples of successful implementation of your economic ideas? The list I posted earlier shows many examples of socio-economic success, but they all seem to have taken an almost opposite economic tack than that which you are arguing.

    "That's why people should vote with their wallets. If you wish to pay more for a better or a "fairer" product, you should be free to do so. If a company acts illegally, it will be punished accordingly. If it acts against your ethics, you can boycott or even protest it. The market will respond to the demands of consumers."

    Unfortunately, people don't seem to do this. We've had plenty of time to test this idea, and it's not happening. I'm sure we (consumers) would boycott more often if we had really good information in front of us when purchasing, but it would take government level organization to even have that information in the first place. It's up to governments, not consumers, to take action against the products of foreign companies who "act illegally" (their actions are often not illegal in their own country).

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24
    When all was said and done, the entire charade cost $135,000. Thanks to our great foresight and financial planning () we paid the entire $500 out of pocket max in one day from our overflowing checking account. My husband's employer picked up the rest.

    I say - good for you both and for your families! Way to go! I'm truly glad that your husbands employer has such great insurance to cover the rest of the bills and I'm sure you are both grateful and thankful that you can not only afford that deductible but have great jobs on top of that. Foresight and financial planning are great assets to have - congratulations to you both for pooling your assets together to carve out a comfortable life for yourselves and your families. This is a great story and only serves to back up what I said earlier - comfort does not create a need for change - desperation does.

    If you take your story and reverse it the outcome would be much different. There are millions of people who have not, may never have and are not capable of the same foresight and planning that you both had.

    Story - a kid who grew up abused in every way. Burn marks on his arm where dad put out his cigarettes. Rotten teeth from neglect. A hole in his leg where the wood he got beat with had a chunk broken off. Despite being a good kid and smart, he's forced to drop out of high school in order to take care of his family. His little brothers and sisters have no one. He doesn't know any different but struggles to find a way to survive - keep out of trouble. Gets 2 part time jobs and works 11 hours a day keeping afloat. Puts a little aside day after day with the goal of being able to go back to school sometime in the future. He works without vacations. Doesn't have a car. Has no material assests but he is determined. He's now 31 and has saved up $3,000 in the bank. He feels good about that - it's been hard, he's had to switch jobs when one company closes up - just to find another one. He had some health care at one job that paid for 20% but that was a while back. He breathes a sigh of relief, at least all his brothers and sisters graduated from high school now and he can think of his own goals.

    One day at work he gets sick and is taken to the hospital. He has emergency surgery and stays to recuperate for 2 weeks. He leaves the hospital recovered and with a bill for $78,000 - the cost of his surgery, care and medicines. He has no money and anxiety mounts. A few weeks go by and during that time he has tried to access any of the financial programs that might help him out but his income is over the poverty limit of $12,000. Collection agencies are calling him demanding payment so he won't answer the phone any more. Letters arrive in the mail threatening him with legal action if he doesn't pay up - he worries more. He has already taken all the money in his account and paid them that and tried to explain he has no more. He agrees to try and pay them something - maybe $50.00 a month. He asks for more hours at work. He gets turned down. He looks for a better job and a full time one - he hasn't found that yet - for a guy with no high school education and willing to work hard, it's tough.

    This man continues to pay down that one debt and tries to live at the same time, struggling all the while against depression and futility in a life of odds stacked against him. He goes back to get his GED in between jobs - he forgoes relationships because he doesn't have the time nor the money. His debtload keeps him awake at night - he has sacrificed his life to keep his family afloat and give them opportunity. He turns 35 tomorrow - he gets another letter in the mail - he still owes so much! He's tired. He feels trapped. He has asked for a hand out from no-one ever. Despair washes over him as he heads off to his new full time job - there are no health benefits but it pays a little more. It's raining out. He reads the collection letter once again...raises his head and looks out over the city..he makes a left turn and in the next instant he finds himself standing on the Wilson bridge looking at the raging water below - he doesn't really remember the whole walk - he is enveloped with a blanket of darkness - his freedom will only come from death.

    They drag his body out of the river, piece of paper clutched in his hand. His story never hits the paper. No one knows his name. Nobody really cares too much. Must be just another bum. Some down and out jerk. Some no good slacker. Must have been.

    sammieswife.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Damn quiter wasn't smart enough to just.be.LDHlorRipley

  • sammielee24
    sammielee24

    compassion - the humane quality of understanding the suffering of others and wanting to do something about it

    Compassion denotes deep awareness of the suffering of another and the wish to relieve it: "Compassion is not weakness, and concern for the unfortunate is not socialism" Hubert H. Humphrey.

  • LDH
    LDH
    He leaves the hospital recovered and with a bill for $78,000 - the cost of his surgery, care and medicines. He has no money and anxiety mounts. A few weeks go by and during that time he has tried to access any of the financial programs that might help him out but his income is over the poverty limit of $12,000.

    You and all of your friends should have pooled your money to help him.

    By the way, don't you think we should have National Food Service? Plenty of children go to bed hungry at night.

    Try to answer the question directly, just once.

    As for your definition of compassion, just because you WANT to do something to relieve others suffering does not mean you take from your family to provide for theirs. That's called martyrdom.

    martyr

    n 1: one who suffers for the sake of principle

    Swalker with the financial acumen and reasoning like you've shown on the thread, it's no wonder you "were" the manager of a company.

    Lisa

    Dictionary Class

  • LDH
    LDH
    I've lived in the southwest all my life and have never seen a union around here . Unions are "akin" to communists, at least that is what the older people think. I for one think it might be nice to have had a choice, our state is a right to work which cleaverly makes the naive think we are proteceted, but we aren't. You can be fired for any reason, no reason. You really have almost no firghts and barring a major osha violation, they won't touch an emplorer. Also our workers comp laws are a joke. don't get sick or hurt here.

    Would I be right if I guessed Arizona?

    Arizona employers also have the right to determine who is an employee for the sake of insurance. More retardation.

    Lisa

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Lisa:You're being unnecessarily offensive. Is it because you've subconsciously realised that you aren't fooling anyone with your poorly constructed arguments?

    Did you even bother to read Rabbit's example? What would have happened to your well-worked-out plans if your hubby had required extensive re-hospitalisation over the course of a couple of years? Would you still be as smug?

    Derek:It seems that your main issue is the rate at which a minimum wage is set. Do you really disagree with the principle that if someone works hard all day they ought to be able to eat at the breadline rate? IMHO a society that doesn't at least allow that should look to it's ethics.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit