thirdwitness, your arguments, while not generally as completely stupid as those that scholar pretendus presents, are rapidly approaching their level.
: You have just done what people do when they have no plausible explanation. And that is, make big long posts that could have been said in about 3 sentences thus trying to confuse the issue.
This is an incredibly stupid statement, but one we've come to expect from JW defenders. Dismiss the facts, and ignore the evidence.
The fact is that I and others made simple arguments early in this thread, but you kept challenging us to present full evidence. Now that we've done so, you complain, "Don't confuse the issue with facts!" Hypocrite!
: Your whole entire theory is based on nothing but the meager secular evidence
Wrong. I, Leolaia and others have presented a great deal of biblical and secular evidence. The fact that you reject it out of hand is diagnostic of your need to worship the JW Governing Body.
And indeed you've neglected 90% of everyone's arguments and evidence.
: and your need to discredit JWs.
While I admit that I enjoy discrediting JWs, it is also a fact that I enjoy discrediting other cults and cultish groups, such as Flat Earthers and Young-Earth Creationists. But I do this with facts.
: Here is a summation of AlanF's essay:
A fair summary, considering you copied it verbatim from my post.
From here on, I'll comment mainly on what Leolaia has not already covered.
: Considering them one at a time what do we find:
:: (1) Ezekiel 26 contains a prophecy that Tyre would be destroyed and never rebuilt; it was destroyed and rebuilt several times in the course of history and exists today with some 270,000 inhabitants.
: The ancient city of Tyre now lies in ruins. It was never rebuilt.
Jeremiah 25:8,9 states:
Therefore the LORD Almighty says this: "Because you have not listened to my words, I will summon all the peoples of the north and my servant Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon," declares the LORD, "and I will bring them against this land and its inhabitants and against all the surrounding nations. I will completely destroy them and make them an object of horror and scorn, and an everlasting ruin. (NIV)
The ancient city of Jerusalem was prophesied to lie in ruins forever. It still lies in ruins. It was never rebuilt.
: This fact is ignored.
This fact is ignored.
: You may presume to know the mind of God and what he meant but my belief is that all the Bible prophecis are true. I must therefore conclude that Jehovah meant that the ancient city would lie in ruins and not be rebuilt but that there would be activity there such as fisherman with their nets.
You may presume to know the mind of God and what he meant but true Bible believers believe that all the Bible prophecies are true. I must therefore conclude that Jehovah meant that ancient Jerusalem would lie in ruins forever, for once a city is destroyed it cannot be rebuilt.
: Just because a city has been built around the site of the ancient city does not negate the prophecy. For your argument to have merit you must presume that you know more than God and that the interpretation of secular evidence negates His word. Thus your argument has no merit.
Just because a city has been built around the site of the ancient city does not negate the prophecy. For you to think that Jerusalem exists today you must presume that you know more than God and that the interpretation of secular evidence negates His word. Thus your argument has no merit.
:: 2) The false prophecy of Ezekiel 26 shows that all other prophecies in Ezekiel must be viewed in light of demonstrated historical facts.
The false prophecy of Jeremiah 25 shows that all other prophecies in Jeremiah must be viewed in light of demonstrated historical facts.
: Again, I prefer to go with God's word rather than the interpretation of AlanF. Sorry about that but I do not consider your words equal to Ezekiels, Zechariahs, Isaiah's... For your argument to have merit you must presume that you know more than God and that the interpretation of secular evidence negates His word. Thus your argument has no merit.
Again, true Bible believers prefer to go with God's word rather than the interpretation of thirdwitness. Sorry about that but I do not consider your beliefs equal to Jeremiah's, Zechariah's, Isaiah's... For your argument to have merit you must presume that you know more than God and that the interpretation of secular evidence negates His word. Thus your belief has no merit.
I hope that by now, even you can see how miserably stupid your arguments are. But not likely, for such is the power of cult mind control.
:: (3) The 40-year prophecy of Ezekiel 29 contradicts known historical facts, as demonstrated by Leolaia and other posters.
: So does the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt. Do you deny that also?
I don't doubt that there was an exodus of sorts, but certainly not of the some 2.5 million people claimed by the Torah. It is an uncontrovertible fact that 2.5 million people trekking around in an area the size of the Sinai desert will leave traces. No traces implies no huge wandering group.
: I bet you were also one that claimed that Belshazzar never existed?
Um, that was settled about 150 years ago, you moron.
: And that Pilate never existed? Until they found the evidence.
Nope, never doubted it.
: You are willing to accept the interpretation of secular historians from the meager historical information they have
Nonsense. I accept secular information based on its own merits, and when needed I compare all evidence to sift out the facts based on a preponderance of good evidence. This is quite unlike JWs, who sift out the facts as needed to support the Watchtower Society's claims about what the Bible says.
: rather than accept the word of God. Sorry I am not willing to do that.
Too bad for you. It means that you must accept all sorts of nonsense, because a literal reading of the Bible (and of course, for JWs that means nothing more than what the Watchtower Society claims is literal) demands it.
You must accept that God created everything in six days (Exodus 20:11).
You must accept that Jerusalem no longer exists (Jeremiah 25:8,9).
You must accept that there was a global Flood a few thousand years ago, when there is no evidence whatsoever for such a thing.
You must accept that the earth is flat (Matthew 4:8; Daniel 4:10-11; Isaiah 40:22).
You must accept that the sun revolves around the earth (Joshua 10).
Need I go on?
: For your argument to have merit you must presume that you know more than God and that the interpretation of secular evidence negates His word. Thus your argument has no merit.
First, you're confusing your desire to claim that some biblical passage is literal with whether it really ought to be viewed as literal. To do that, you would have to be inspired.
Second, It has already been shown many times in this thread that an apparently literal passage cannot be literal if it contradicts demonstrable facts, or it simply cannot be true. That this is necessary is proved by the fact that you must interpret several items on the above list as figurative or symbolic in order to retain any faith at all in the Bible.
:: (4) Various Bible commentators agree that the figure of 40 years in Ezekiel 29 must be viewed as figurative or symbolic.
: Various Bible commentators also accept that God is a Trinity. In fact, most do. For your argument to have merit you must presume that you know more than God and that the interpretation of secular evidence negates His word. Thus your argument has no merit.
Nonsense. Watchtower teachings have often claimed that some interpretation was God-given, only to change it when its leaders decided to accept some facts that said differennt. Again you merely assume that whatever the Watchtower teaches is 100% correct, and inspired.
C. T. Russell taught that his entire chronological system contained nothing but "God's dates", yet today, only 1914 is left.
:: (5) Watchtower defenders have given no reason to doubt the above points, but have given only speculation and mere nay-saying.
: Speculation you say.
No. "Speculation" I've PROVED. See below for an example of how you speculate wildly.
: Here is some speculation for you.
: Ezekiel 29:10 . . .
: Hmm, lets see. After reading these verses which do you suppose would be speculation?
Leolaia has adequately answered this and your remaining claims.
: If the 40 year desolation proved 587 you would not be making these outlandish arguments against God's words and you know it.
Of course I would. I'm interested in the facts -- not your wild speculation about what I might do in a hypothetical situation.
: Your only reason for formulating such unreasonableness is because you cannot admit that JWs are right about 607 after all.
JWs and the preceding Bible Students have been wrong about this whole silly 1914 chronology from the get-go. Every date except 1914 has been abandoned, along with the unscriptural speculations derived from them. JWs today are no more right about 607 than they were about 606, or 1874, or 1878, or 1881, or 1904, or 1918, or 1925, or 1941, or 1975, or 2000.
Really, thirdwitness. The handwriting is on the wall. When the present crop of GB members and their cronies die off within a couple of decades, the 1914 chronology will be jettisoned, just as the once-all-important dates of 1874 and 606 were. What will you do then?