if an atheist does something good... (page 9)

Wordly Andre

This doesn't have anything to do really with the topic but its funny so I will share with you.

My best friend is an Atheist, I trust him more than my JW brothers (Blood brothers) and he actually has a friend who he works with and hangs around with after work, who is a JW, (I'm not sure how much of a JW he is for having a friend like him) anyway, my friend (Atheist) is always talking crap to his friend (JW) yesterday he told me that he said to (JW boy) "My god thinks your god doesn't exists", I nearly choked on my coffee from laughing!

This (JWboy) who only acts like a JW when its for his own benifit, case in point, my friends b-day, JWboy didn't show up to the party, but will accept B-day presents, and last year he came to our Halloween party, but got offended over a ouji board that was at the party, and it was there only as a decoration. Well Atheist friend got pissed off at JWboy over him preaching about it at the Halloween party and told him FCUK Jehoebah, I wish you could have seen the look on JWboy's face, I think he wanted to cry. Don't mess with a drunk Atheist.

lonelysheep

Andre, that's funny!

NewYork44M

I was always taught from the wt that atheists do not value life because they do not believe in god.

But this does not make any sense. An atheist believes that this life is all there is and will thus cherish their life. Compare that to your typical jw. This individual will put up with crap their whole life because they would rather wait for what they call "the real life." My sister in-law once told me that she will never be happy in this life because she is waiting for something better. She made that statement to re-enforce her spirituality. I just thought it was very sad.

DannyBloem

Hi Simon, welcome to this board!

Where does morality come from?

Morality is complex and but can be explained by evolution and the influence of the society we grow up in.

What is that voice in our head?

hmm, I do not seem to be botehred by voices in my head, so I do not know

Where does that come from?
Why do we balk at doing a bad think a hurtful thing?
That is not genetics!

You are talking about concience.

It is only partly genetics, the other is influence from the things that we hear, see and experience. Out parents and society in which we grow up are important factors in this.

It is very logical that having a concience enabled a species for better survival.
How that concience is exactly filled in, depends on the culture. Things that are very normal in some cultures are very against the concience of people in other cultures. This shows that the our concience is not something fixed, a gift from God or so.

Know one knows our private personal thoughts!
This is uniques to an individual!
This is not generic!
This is one of the many proofs of God!

Our thoughs are not generic or general they are specific for the individual indeed. I fail to see how this proves that there is a god.

If there would be one moral standard in religion you could have a point. But the fact is thst the moral standards of religion are changing and far from the same. This can only lead to the opposite conclusion that the lack of standard morality is a effidence in favor of the atheistic point of view.

Danny

skeptic2

DD - apologies, I directed my comment at you, when they were more a reaction to other things said in this thread.

skeptic2

If a sky-god has implanted the concepts of good and evil into the human psyche (this is beginning to sound like Scientology!) - does he do it at a certain age, or at birth, or is in some kind of interal 'spirit'?
Because very young children do not understand these concepts (if you are interested in the research try a google search for 'moral development'). I guess the sky-god introduces the concepts to the child slowly, over time, and it is this that fool us into thinking the child is learning these concepts from interacting with the world?
I can't answer the question of where my morality comes from beyond the phrase 'genetics and life experience', because I have very basic knowledge in the field of moral development.

Deputy Dog

S

Well, can you say that the bible and bible message hasn't changed since it's beginning????

What changes are you referring too? funky

I think child sexual abuse* is wrong because it harms a child. Why do you think it is wrong?

We agree! But the pedophile doesn't see it that way. He doesn't think he is hurting anyone, does he? What makes us right and him wrong? kid-a

Newflash DD:
Do you know how many murderers and serial killers were staunchly religious believers??? Shall I begin with BTK , Andrea Yates and John Wayne Gacy? Did having religious beliefs prevent any of these psychopaths from performing their deeds?

I don't know what thread you've been reading? I never said " having religious beliefs" made one moral or implied anything of the sort! See my posts to skeptic! "I believe many (if not most atheist) are very moral " skeptic No apologies needed! You're not the only one to make that mistake.

(this is beginning to sound like Scientology!)

It comes right from the bible

Romans 2:14 For when the nations, who do not have the Law, do by nature the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law unto themselves; 15 who show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and the thoughts between one another accusing or even excusing one another,

Because very young children do not understand these concepts (if you are interested in the research try a google search for 'moral development').

You don't think children understand right from wrong? I knew at a very young age what obey mom and dad meant!

D Dog

Satanus

Well, can you say that the bible and bible message hasn't changed since it's beginning????
What changes are you referring too?

There is the change in tactics of the bible god; first, he just killed people when they were naughty. He felt guilt about his own temper, and promised not to do it again. Then, after he killed his own son (or set him up to be killed, which is really the same thing for an omniscient, omnipotent deity), he started getting all soft on the sinners, as long as they put faith in his son who he killed. This is a large change in personality of a supposed changeless god. Another example is the redactuions in most of the bible books, which are noted by many bible commentators. Many words and phrases changed. S

funkyderek

Deputy Dog:

We agree! But the pedophile doesn't see it that way. He doesn't think he is hurting anyone, does he? What makes us right and him wrong?

Because he is hurting someone. If it was not harmful to the child, then there would be no problem. That's the reason it's wrong. Not because your god says so (although the god of the bible certainly never does, and some people's gods actually encourage it) but because it harms a human being.

(That is why enlightened people don't condemn homosexuality the way many religious people do; nobody is harmed as long as only informed consenting adults are involved.)

You don't think children understand right from wrong? I knew at a very young age what obey mom and dad meant!

I find that quite telling. To me, knowing how to obey is not at all about knowing the difference between right and wrong. In fact, that's why parents make their children obey them; because they don't yet know right from wrong. As children grow up they are normally and rightly allowed more freedom until eventually - one hopes - they are able to judge right from wrong themselves and no longer need to blindly obey orders. People in high-control groups or with overbearing parents may never reach that final stage.

Do you really think that obedience is equivalent to morality? No wonder you can't understand how we get our morals if you think it's about obeying whoever's in charge.

dust

Atheists are just as diverse as Christians. They may have an instinctive urge to be good. They are not any more calculating than others. We are all humans, whether we are Christians, atheists or anything else... Romans 2:12-16: 12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

if an atheist does something good...

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