by DannyBloem 113 Replies latest watchtower scandals
if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?
what's your thoughs on this?
If an atheist does something good, it is only out of survival instinct.
If an atheist leads a good life, helps others, etc, that means that he/she should be praised, worshipped and obeyed. Eh, well, that's what christians claim for their god when they are good.
S
I agree Dan.
It seems to me that if you are genuinly not blindly hiding behind a God - or anybody else's opinion for that matter - as a justification for your morals, your motives could be the purer for it, based as they will be on sound autonomous reasoning. The latter could of course be even better evidence of a divine legislator. But morals never solely arise from within, and are always based on outside influences.
"Survival of the fittest" in the end will not be considered a valid source for generally accepted morals. The concept of justice is a hallmark of human consciousness and alien to the animal world, though people have been known not to be able to even fully live up to standards set by animals.
Danny
My personal take on your question - as an atheist - is that my choice to be a good person and live a good life is not based on an external reward system ("god" giving letting you live in heaven after you die, for example). It's based on my personal belief that I am only going to be on this earth for a limited time, and I'm only getting one kick at the can, so I want to make sure that the legacy I leave for my children and others in my life is one based on my sense of ethics. I don't want or need to be a good person for the sake of "god's favour".
I've been reading a fascinating book called Can We Be Good Without God? by Dr. Robert Buckman, that examines how behaviour, belonging and the innate need of humans to believe in "something" is wired into our brain circuitry. There's some really interesting stuff about how the brain can be stimulated during surgery and using EEG waves to elicit what people describe as "spiritual experiences".
You might be able to find it in second-hand book stores, or order it online. It was published in 2000 by Penguin Books. ISBN: 0 14 02.9369 8
hey danny,
i think that in the end it doesn't matter. plus, i am not sure what would constitute a consistent and unambiguous definition of "high moral", "good" and "bad"? these things are simple for many transcendentalists because their god does their thinking for them, or i should say, the writers of their holy books have done all the thinking for them. but these things are difficult for an atheist/empiricist to come to agreement on in a wide spectrum of human based interactions. especially if an atheist is also an anarchist, or nihilistic in her views.
one could say that technically, to a theist, or even to the theist's benevolent and omniscient god, an atheist living "better" than he theist deserves the worship that any other god would get. but to an atheist, generally it's a moot point because we sort of "know" that karma doesn't exist. "good" people and "bad" people alike all die the same death, and pay the same price. so there is no need to make a point about it.
if people could focus on the light and energy around them and in them, and remember to breathe deeply into life, and exhale Self, they could stop worrying about the so-called difference between these abstractions that we call "good" and "bad", "right" and "wrong".
ts
Tetra:
"they could stop worrying about the so-called difference between these abstractions that we call "good" and "bad", "right" and "wrong"."
The whole point is that they just do worry - whether consciously or unconsciously - and it matters to them (us) all that when they (we) do not (do justice), the shit hits the fan...
"If an atheist does something good, it is only out of survival instinct."
Right - an atheist would never ever sacrifice his life to save another.
Danny:
***does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?***
Who would it mean more to? As long as someone is doing his best to live a "good" life, the motives don't really matter.
Right - an atheist would never ever sacrifice his life to save another.
I's just been cheeky poppers.
(no god but myself class)
