if an atheist does something good...

by DannyBloem 113 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  LittleToe

  What?

  Maybe you're limiting the discussion to Fundamentalist religion and rule books.

  This is one Christian who believes that all wrongs are cleaned off the celestial slate, leaving him with reconciling his own behaviour. A motivating factor might be disappointing Sky-Daddy, instead of a physical parent, but there's no fear of retribution involved.

  Nic:

  However, atheists are waaay cooler than believers!

  Oh? Because?

  You know that I can't let something unsubstantiated and unsupported as that stand, don't you? Show me the statistical empirical evidence that your statement is more correct than there being invisible pink unicorns at the bottom of the garden
• 

  parakeet

  evanescence:
  ***Think of a world with no moral law...***
  I can think of many instances where the world was without a moral law:
  The Israelites' numerous massacres of whole nations, including women and children.
  The Crusades
  The Inquisition
  The too-many-to-count European religious wars and pogroms
  The wholesale massacre of Native Americans by white Christians
  The WTC and the Pentagon attacks
  The current war in the Mideast
  If atheists believe in "survival of the fittest" (and that's an uninformed slur against atheists), then believers in the Bible and the Koran must believe in "survival of the fittest religion."
  Please educate yourself about atheists before embarrassing yourself in a public forum again.
• 

  DanTheMan

  if an atheist leads good life with high moral standards, because he choice to do so and thinks for logic it is a good thing, does it not mean much more then when a theist does the same, because his gods tells him to do it?

  what's your thoughs on this?

  I don't think the atheist can ever experience the same satisfaction from doing something "good" that a believer does, simply because the atheist does not view his act as having any transcendental value. IOW, it's difficult or impossible for an atheist to view acts of "goodness" performed either by themselves or others as having sprung from altruistic motives. Atheism takes the romance out of everything. Dan, leaving-JWism-made-me-a-cynical-bastard class ;)
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  >>IOW, it's difficult or impossible for an atheist to view acts of "goodness" performed either by themselves or others as having sprung from altruistic motives. Atheism takes the romance out of everything.

  Dan, Dan, Dan....

  Altruism is doing something good for someone else that doesn't do anything good for you, right? It could be argued that such a thing doesn't exist, since doing good for others makes you feel good about yourself. When I give a bum a cigarette, I could just be a selfish bastard longing for another hit of that "do unto others" good feeling. But I don't think that's it.

  Though I'll grant you, I don't find flipping a fag to a ratty guy with a garbage bag full of cans to be particularly "romantic"... :-)

  Dave of the "hopeless romantic/atheist" class
• 

  apfergus

  Now concerning the "atheist worldview" now don't be offended when I say this, I am referring to the "worldview" not the atheist individuals themselves. As a previous poster joked before "they will do good if it is for survival" that is exactly the atheist worldview, "survival of the fittest" If this is the case then we cannot say what Hitler did was wrong, in the end war is just that "survival of the fittest" In an atheist worldview, there cannot be any certain "right" and "wrong" "good" or "bad" So as an atheist supporting the atheist worldview one cannot say "I do GOOD things" If they do, then they are contradicting their worldview. ....What is good exactly? Where do our morals originate from? If there is no certain good and evil Then the closest we can get to is "disagreement" You can't really say "my opinion is right and yours is wrong" concerning morals, because there is no "right" and "wrong"! Think of a world with no moral law...

  Okay. This is wrong. Just plain wrong. There are no such things as moral absolutes. Nobody can name a moral absolute, because there is no such thing. All morality boils down to is either emotional attatchment to a certain idea of righteosness or a logical conclusion based on a careful assessment of the situation. Moral relativists (not necessarily atheists, but I think moral relativism is what's being questioned here and not atheism) make moral judgements based on the latter process wanting the resulting situation to be that which is best for not only themselves but for everyone else as well. Morality follows exactly from the question, "What is best for human-kind as a whole?" No God is necessary to answer that question, simply care and logic.
  Moreover, if one makes moral decisions based on unquestionable lists of things that are "good" or "bad" then it is relatively easy to fall into a trap when something from the "bad" list suddenly becomes the best solution to a situation or something from the "good" list would bring harm to others. While some paradigms might have relatively effective lists, reality is not always so cut-and-dried and eventually situations will arise where the list-based morality fails. Even if one were to use such a system as a starting place, I think that eventually everyone has to develop some ability to drop them when the time comes and make a judgement call on their own using good sense and reason.
• 

  DanTheMan

  It could be argued that such a thing doesn't exist, since doing good for others makes you feel good about yourself.

  Exactly...but the believer is much more easily able to maintain an illusion of selflessness than the atheist is, if the atheist is even attempting to do so in the first place. And it's this illusion of selflessness that gives the believer the better neurotransmitter cocktail following an act of "goodness" than what the atheist gets. The believer gets Canadian Club, the atheist gets Ripple.

  It's like that proverbial saying, "the believer is happy, the skeptic is wise".
• 

  purplesofa

  I would just like to add this

  I feel alot better when I do something "good" when I do it becuase it feels good and the "right" thing to do. Not because god notices.........

  For instance, passing along something to help another, like the witnesses feel about preaching. The joy for my was taken out when a documention became a focus(turning in time) than when I could just do it from the heart. Feel the good feelings from it and go on. A gift is a gift. It does not need to be returned or even remembered for that matter.

  so when i do something good.......I don't think anymore, so much as if it pleases God, or someone else as much as I feel like I am sharing the love I feel for another......or mankind in general.

  A theist or Christian don't necessarily do good because "their God told them to do it" at first Christians must submit to the law but then the "law will set you free" because of our human sinfulness we need laws for direction and as a starting point, but as you grow in your spiritual life you will be "set free" and will do good not because it is required by the law, but because of your love towards one another.

  I think when the bible talks about after the thousand year reign, when all things are handed back to God, there is no mediator, as mankind as a whole will have figured this all out.

  Some people do not have the need for a law to do good. And sometimes a choice for what is considered good is relative to the time and situation at hand.

  I think I am babbling. well a nicer way to put it is .......thinking outloud.

  purps
• 

  lonelysheep

  I agree with what DanTheMan just said. In addition to that, I feel it means less if a theist does a good thing because his gods tell him to. It becomes nothing but a nongenuine, kissazz act.
• 

  skeptic2

  I think everyone gets their morality from the same place, genetics and experience, just religionists later on in life pretend it comes from a book.
• 

  skeptic2

  Religious morality allows people to justify some horrible, horrible things, such as:

  God Hates Fags

  and

  Paul Hill murdering a doctor who legally performed abortions

  I can't imagine how an atheist would ever come up with a code of morality that justified these kinds of acts, let alone actively encouraged and promoted them.