if an atheist does something good...

by DannyBloem 113 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  DannyBloem

  Thank you all for responding,

  where to start... lot of responces.

  Van Gogh: I Agree

  Scully: Will take a look at it, but having still a lot to read here and limited time.... Thanks for the recomendation

  Tetra:

  i think that in the end it doesn't matter. plus, i am not sure what would constitute a consistent and unambiguous definition of "high moral", "good" and "bad"? these things are simple for many transcendentalists because their god does their thinking for them, or i should say, the writers of their holy books have done all the thinking for them. but these things are difficult for an atheist/empiricist to come to agreement on in a wide spectrum of human based interactions. especially if an atheist is also an anarchist, or nihilistic in her views.

  It seems to me that it is more difficult for theists to come to conclusions of what is good morality, then atheists. Theists have a wide range of views on it, atheists too, but with atheists it is more discusable.

  I agree to you that it some ways is not a big point, or at least for atheists it will not be. But in some other ways it could. Especially since some theists think of atheists as being moraly bad...

  The question of what is good and bad is beyond this issue I want to raise here... Poppers / IP_Sec:

  "If an atheist does something good, it is only out of survival instinct."
  
  Right - an atheist would never ever sacrifice his life to save another.

  You atheist b...... Of course there are lots of atheists that did sacrifice their lives.
  It can also eaily be explained in a darwinistic viewpoint. Danny
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  DannyBloem

  Midget-Sasquatch:

  I'd consider the atheist "nobler" because they're in a position of authority (self autonomy) but are not abusing it (rather they're channeling their power for the greater good). I think that those kinds of atheists can offer more hope for humanity and the planet vs believers who let their ethics and morals be shaped by dubious religious authorities.

  Well saidBob1999:

  Doing good things is good but it does not save anybody. The only way to be saved by doing good things is to do only good things for a life time. Past, present and future. But all have sinned and fallen short of the glory..... So it takes the grace of God, obtainable only by faith, through the sacrifice of Christ.

  That's not the question.... Kudra:

  But I have known lots of devout believers that are really nice just cause they are nice people. Not all believers are just nice because it gets them somewhere.

  Nice thought. I do not mean to be black and white here. In some ways there is very little difference. I started this thread after because somewbody told me that if I did not believe that I could not do good at all. He was a christian that felt he was much superior to me because of his faith....
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  DannyBloem

  Evanescence :

  If this is the case then we cannot say what Hitler did was wrong, in the end war is just that "survival of the fittest"

  he was wrong because he lost. Bad Joke, sorry

  In an atheist worldview, there cannot be any certain "right" and "wrong" "good" or "bad"

  Not an absolute right and wrong maybe. Which is a good thing, IMHO.
  For the theistic worldview, this is pretty much the same. We just see around us, that there is almost no agreement to what is good and bad for theists also.

  But of course there is right and wrong. Most people will agree on the most basic laws, which almost all countries share.

  So as an atheist supporting the atheist worldview one cannot say "I do GOOD things" If they do, then they are contradicting their worldview.

  You seem to have a strange view on atheists here.
  
  

  If someone was to push in front of you while standing in the line would you say "Hey that is not fair, I was here first" ? If the other person ignore you and say "tough luck pal"

  Why not belt the living daylights out of the lunatic and show him who's master? Isn't that what the atheist worldview promote?

  Well, this is basically how it is done. Children learn on this way. Not by beating the shit out of him, but by being confronted with a social group that does not accept his behaviour....
• 

  Evanescence

  A lot of you refer to some "book" but you forget that the book points to Christ's body, his Church.

  1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

  Granted we have the big problem here of having countless protestant denominations arguing over the correct interpretation of scripture. But what is one of their basic beliefs? Sola Scriptura (bible alone) of course. Protestants don't believe in the "pillar and foundation" of the Truth. The one true Church that keeps scripture at its correct interpretation.

  Another key factor to look at is history.

  How old is your church?

  http://www.scripturecatholic.com/history.html

  Jehovah's Witnesses as you all know already was founded by Charles Taze Russel in 1874. Where did the WT get the authority to interpret scripture from?

  I can understand if atheists find religion off putting due to all these denominations and constant arguments over scripture interpretation, I really don't blame you at all.

  With the world religions we can see all faiths trying to reach out to a God or supernatural being. However there is one faith that shows God reaching out to man and that would be Christianity. One of the very basic traditions is we are called to be witnesses of Christ; this means we are to know God personally.

  Also there is no denying that evil has been done in the name of God. We are still sinful beings and fall short of the glory of God.

  Evanescence
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  Deputy Dog

  Danny

  How does an athiest know when he has done something good? Who's standard does he use?

  D Dog
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  skeptic2

  If I may also answer:

  How does an athiest know when he has done something good? Who's standard does he use?

  The same one everyone else uses - the one that's individually developed through human empathy combined with life experience.

  Why - what one do you use?
• 

  skeptic2

  With the world religions we can see all faiths trying to reach out to a God or supernatural being. However there is one faith that shows God reaching out to man and that would be Christianity. One of the very basic traditions is we are called to be witnesses of Christ; this means we are to know God personally

  Does all Christians possess this level of conceit? It's dumbfounding.
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  Deputy Dog

  skeptic

  The same one everyone else uses - the one that's individually developed through human empathy combined with life experience.

  What's good for you, may not be good for me. So how do you know what is good and what is evil? Are you saying you are using your own standard?

  Why - what one do you use?

  I use God's standard. Which judges and finds me lacking.

  D Dog
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  Deputy Dog

  Evanescence

  Granted we have the big problem here of having countless protestant denominations arguing over the correct interpretation of scripture. But what is one of their basic beliefs? Sola Scriptura (bible alone) of course. Protestants don't believe in the "pillar and foundation" of the Truth. The one true Church that keeps scripture at its correct interpretation.

  We believe in one true Church alright, Christ's Church, headed by Him. We just don't believe that it is headed by men or an organization! We believe it is the Holy Spirit's job to give the "correct interpretation of scripture" NOT THE CHURCH (or the POPE)!

  2 Peter 1:20 First, you must understand this: No prophecy in Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation. 21 No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit as humans spoke under God's direction.
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  kikisdragon

  I am an athiest, and I wholeheartedly disagree that an athiest only does 'good' out of survival. Every athiest is not the same - everyone has their own motives. That is insulting to me that you would assume that about me! I think that being a good person and helping others is a way to make the world a better place, and benefits everyone and is the natural thing for humans to do. And yes, depending on the circumstances, I would sacrifice my life for someone else. My son, specifically. In a heartbeat. For a friend or family member, if that was the right thing to do. You do not need to believe in god to love people, and to put other people's needs first.

  And I think it does matter to some extent, the motive behind 'doing good'. If a person only does good because of their religious beliefs, they will only do it when people know about it or people are watching. But someone who wants to do something good, simply because they see the need, or sincerely want to help or care about someone, will do good regardless of who is watching, or who knows about it. If one of my friends helps me out, because they feel it is their 'christian duty', then I would rather they didnt bother, because it means they really don't care about me, they only want to look good in other people's eyes, or please their 'god' so they will be rewarded or try to get me to come to more meetings or something of that nature. But when a true friend does something out of the sincerity of their heart, expecting no reward, then it strengthens friendships, and I appreciate it all the more, and am more likely to pass on the good feeling to others.

  I can honestly say that now that I'm an athiest I have more love for other people, and spend much more time helping others than I ever did when I was a JW. Not that I'm a saint or always helping others, because I don't - sometimes I choose not to help someone because my son comes first, or I'm tired, or I'm broke. But when I do 'good' things, it is because I choose to, not because someone told me to, or because I'm worried about what the 'brothers and sisters' will think, or if I'll get into the 'New System'.

  -Karolyn