by Justice-One 159 Replies latest social physical
Just because the constitution allows something does not make that thing desirable.We are not living in 1787.
And that is ones mans opinion. Thankfully because of our Constitution, it would not matter even if 51 percent thought the same way. Some people just do not understand that freedom is a precious, rare, and delicate thing. Those that would give up freedom for safety, deserve neither. Hmmmm....seems to me some old dead guy said that.
Thankfully because of our Constitution, it would not matter even if 51 percent thought the same way.
So the Constitution comes before the people? Really? It always makes me smile that the most 'christian' nation on Earth is the most well armed. Would Christ carry a gun? I suppose if he were an American he might.
Nic, to counter the usual crock of shit that J-1 is selling, here are some published facts and statistics. Rates of gun ownership are most DEFINITELY linked to higher overall rates of crime (including rape, robbery, assault etc). The US is a shining example of what happens to a society where guns are worshipped and considered a "right".
• The link between accessibility to firearms and death rates has been suggested in a number of studies. One study which examined the link between gun ownership rates and firearm deaths within Canadian provinces, the United States, England/Wales and Australia concluded that 92% of the variance in death rates was explained by access to firearms in those areas. Another review of 13 countries showed that there was a strong correlation between gun ownership and homicide rates and suicide rates. No evidence of substitution was found.
• In another study based on a standardized survey of victimization in fifty-four countries, gun ownership was significantly related to both the level of robberies and the level of sexual assaults. The relationship between levels of gun ownership and threats/assaults with a gun is also strong.
• This is underscored by comparisons of the United States and Canada. The costs of firearms death and injury in the two countries have been compared and estimated to be $495 (US) per resident in the United States compared to $195 per resident in Canada. Canada has always had stronger firearms regulation than the United States, particularly with respect to handguns. As a result, Canada has roughly 1 million handguns while the United States has more than 77 million. While there are other factors affecting murder, suicide and unintentional injury rates, a comparison of data in Canada and the United States suggests that access to handguns may play a role. While the murder rate without guns in the US is roughly equivalent (1.3 times) that of Canada, the murder rate with handguns is 15 times the Canadian rate.
| Country | Licensing of gun owners? | Registration of firearms? | Other | Households with firearms (%) | Gun Homicide (per 100,000) | Gun Suicide (per 100,000) | Total Intentional Gun Death Rate per 100,000 |
| Japan | Yes | Yes | Prohibits handguns with few exceptions | 0.6 | 0.03 | 0.04 | 0.07 |
| Singapore | Yes | Yes | Most handguns and rifles prohibited | 0.01 (795 in the country) | 0.07 | 0.17 | 0.24 |
| Taiwan | N/A | N/A | N/A | 0.15 | 0.12 | 0.27 | |
| Kuwait | N/A | N/A | N/A | 0.34 | 0.03 | 0.37 | |
| England/ Wales | Yes | Yes | Prohibits handguns | 4.0 | 0.07 | 0.33 | 0.4 |
| Scotland | Yes | Yes | Same as England and Wales | 4.0 | 0.19 | 0.30 | 0.49 |
| Netherlands | Yes | Yes | 1.9 | 0.27 | 0.28 | 0.55 | |
| Spain | Yes | Yes | Some handguns and rifles are prohibited | 13.1 | 0.19 | 0.55 | 0.74 |
| Ireland | Yes | Yes | N/A | 0.30 | 0.94 | 1.24 | |
| Germany | Yes | Yes | 8.9 | 0.21 | 1.23 | 1.44 | |
| Italy | Yes | Yes | N/A | 1.16 | 1.11 | 2.27 | |
| Sweden | Yes | Yes | Restrictions in some regions | 20 | 0.18 | 2.09 | 2.27 |
| Denmark | Yes | Long guns only | 8 | 0.23 | 2.25 | 2.48 | |
| Israel | Yes | Yes | N/A | 0.72 | 1.84 | 2.56 | |
| New Zealand | Yes | Handguns. Proposed for long guns | 20 | 0.22 | 2.45 | 2.67 | |
| Australia | Yes | Yes | Banned semiautomatics unless good reason | 16.0 | 0.56 | 2.38 | 2.94 |
| Belgium | Some | Yes | Some rifles are prohibited | 16.6 | 0.87 | 2.45 | 3.32 |
| Canada | by 2001 | All guns by 2003 | Assault weapons and some handguns | 26 | 0.60 | 3.35 | 3.95 |
| Norway | Yes | Unknown | 32 | 0.36 | 3.87 | 4.23 | |
| Austria | Yes | Yes | Some handguns and rifles are prohibited | 16-18% | 0.42 | 4.06 | 4.48 |
| Northern Ireland | Yes | Yes | UK legislation applies | 8.4 | 3.55 | 1.18 | 4.72 |
| France | Yes | Yes, except sporting rifles | 22.6 | 0.55 | 4.93 | 5.48 | |
| Switzerland | Yes | Yes | 27.2 | 0.46 | 5.74 | 6.2 | |
| Finland | Yes | Yes | No prohibitions | 50 | 0.87 | 5.78 | 6.65 |
| USA | in some states | Handguns in some states | Some weapons in some states | 41 | 6.24 | 7.23 | 13.47 |
Source: W. Cukier, Firearms Regulation: Canada in the International Context, Chronic Diseases in Canada, April, 1998 (statistics updated to reflect most recent figures, January 2001)
Does anyone here have an M1 Carbine?
I have one...semi-automatic .30 caliber
So the Constitution comes before the people?
In short yes. It can not be changed by a simple majority.
Would Christ carry a gun....maybe if he had to live in England....but he did tell his apostles to arm themselves with Roman swords. Which were the same as our M16's today. (Standard arm of the time.)
Some people and countries have a problem with the concept of armed free men. I can't say that I understand it, considering what history has taught us. The Human Cost of "Gun Control" Ideas
| Government | Dates | Targets | Civiliams Killed | "Gun Control" Laws | Features of Over-all "Gun Control" scheme |
| Ottoman Turkey | 1915-1917 | Armenians (mostly Christians) | 1-1.5 million | Art. 166, Pen. Code, 1866 & 1911 Proclamation, 1915 | • Permits required •Government list of owners •Ban on possession |
| Soviet Union | 1929-1945 | Political opponents; farming communities | 20 million | Resolutions, 1918 Decree, July 12, 1920 Art. 59 & 182, Pen. code, 1926 | •Licensing of owners •Ban on possession •Severe penalties |
| Nazi Germany & Occupied Europe | 1933-1945 | Political opponents; Jews; Gypsies; critics; "examples" | 20 million | Law on Firearms & Ammun., 1928 Weapon Law, March 18, 1938 Regulations against Jews, 1938 | •Registration & Licensing •Stricter handgun laws •Ban on possession |
| China, Nationalist | 1927-1949 | Political opponents; army conscripts; others | 10 million | Art. 205, Crim. Code, 1914 Art. 186-87, Crim. Code, 1935 | •Government permit system •Ban on private ownership |
| China, Red | 1949-1952 1957-1960 1966-1976 | Political opponents; Rural populations Enemies of the state | 20-35 million | Act of Feb. 20, 1951 Act of Oct. 22, 1957 | •Prison or death to "counter-revolutionary criminals" and anyone resisting any government program •Death penalty for supply guns to such "criminals" |
| Guatemala | 1960-1981 | Mayans & other Indians; political enemies | 100,000- 200,000 | Decree 36, Nov 25 •Act of 1932 Decree 386, 1947 Decree 283, 1964 | •Register guns & owners •Licensing with high fees •Prohibit carrying guns •Bans on guns, sharp tools •Confiscation powers |
| Uganda | 1971-1979 | Christians Political enemies | 300,000 | Firearms Ordinance, 1955 Firearms Act, 1970 | •Register all guns & owners •Licenses for transactions •Warrantless searches •Confiscation powers |
| Cambodia (Khmer Rouge) | 1975-1979 | Educated Persons; Political enemies | 2 million | Art. 322-328, Penal Code Royal Ordinance 55, 1938 | •Licenses for guns, owners, ammunition & transactions •Photo ID with fingerprints •License inspected quarterly |
| Rwanda | 1994 | Tutsi people | 800,000 | Decree-Law No. 12, 1979 | •Register guns, owners, ammunition •Owners must justify need •Concealable guns illegal •Confiscating powers |
When the gun prohibitionists quote a statistic about how many people are killed by firearms misuse, the discussion sometimes bogs down into whose crime stats to believe and how to count crimes vs. the defensive firearm uses. Death by Gun Control works on a level that nobody can dispute: documented world history.
Kid A,
In your table you are comparing aplles to oranges. Japan, Taiwan and many of the coutries you cite have never allowed their citizenry free access to weapons of any kind. Japan specifically banned the posession of weapons by anyone other than the ruling samurai class more than sixhundred years ago! Comparing it to the US, or any other country with a tradition of weapons ownership is ludicrous.
Israel and Switzerland were in you table. Both require ownership of weapons which are banned here in the US by anyone of age to serve in the military. They also demonstrate that such weapons in the hands of those who are trained properly in their use are relatively safe. Years ago people were taught the safe use of firearms in the US as a matter of course, if there parents didn't teach them, they were taught in the boy scouts, school, and the military during the era of the draft. And our homicide rates were nothing like we see today. Those rates started to go up when guns were banned in some jurisdictions (New YorK, etc.) and those jurisdictions lead the nation in shooting deaths.
Around the world, shooting deaths go up when guns are confiscated from the public. In those nations which have severely restricted weaponds as a matter of course for centuries, the rates are low because the weapons have never been there to begin with. I noticed that the statistics didn't include homicides from causes other than firearms. Could it be that the correlation between guns and overall homicide rates is not as strong as you are trying to say?
Forscher
I own at least 30 firearms... rifles, shotguns and handguns. I shoot predators around the farm on a regular basis... I shoot trap and skeet... I hunt for game from time to time. There is a fair collection of vintage Winchester and Marlin Lever actions in the safe.
I carry (CCW) as needed. Training and mindset are more important than anything. Being armed and knowing it (the bad guy doesnt) will keep you out of a lot of sh*it befor it happens.
~Hill
Forgot to add.... all my guns, combined, have never killed as many folks as Ted Kennedy's car...................
~Hill
Nic, to counter the usual crock of shit that J-1 is selling,
Do you dispute world history? And btw, please go make love to yourself.
You can not compare one country to another one. Most countries are not as free as the USA. Japan is a prime example. But it's nice to know Kiddy that the world still has some dreamers left in it such as yourself.
And your stats in no way diminish the facts that I have presented. Governments have killed far more bad guys (after disarming them) than criminals ever will.
In the 20th Century:
How could governments kill so many people? The governments had the power - and the people, the victims, were unable to resist. The victims were unarmed.
Yeah......lets make the world safe and take away all the guns.
Kiddy, I count you in with the rest that just don' t get it, or don't want to....or don't have the brains to do either. OR you full well no the truth, but will not even admit it to yourself because those guns and the real men that are not afraid of them, are just to scary for you to deal with.
Really, I don't see why it matters to the Canadians and the English if Americans own guns. What's it to you? Planning an invasion?
