For Darcy, what do you think is necessary for salvation?

by TheListener 77 Replies latest jw friends

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  darcy

  There are dumb ways to do things, and smart ways. Announcing something like that in a talk would be dumb.
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  sir82

  Darcy,

  Please describe a "smart way" to explain to an elder that you disagree with something the Watchtower says, and have evidence to back it up?
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  bebu

  Hey darcy, just a quick request. Could you please copy and paste in the question(s) which you are replying to? Or the poster's name, at least? It helps us to understand to whom the reply is going.

  bebu
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  bebu

  sir82 makes a very good point, darcy. Unity at all costs, right or wrong (even defying-the-Bible wrong).

  Tell me, you are familiar with much of the skeletons of the WTS. What have you made of the Scottish Sessions trial? In case you are not familiar, here are some excerpts:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/108181/1883368/post.ashx#1883368

  bebu
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  juni

  Using some of the points that Sir82 stated - Hi Darcy - anyway, what would be the smart way to introduce factual things about the Society? Would you feel alright w/ bringing the fact to an elder w/whom you feel comfortable with that they were members of the UN as a Non Governmental Org. to be able to stay abreast of UN dealings?

  Remember in field service we would encourage the h. holder to examine his/her religious teachings? Do you feel that if you were to examine other religions or question stuff about the organization that no one would have a problem with that?

  Just wondering. Thanks for the time in answering.

  Juni
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  darcy

  
  ooh, this is interesting.

  Well, smart way... hmm. I imagine I might first ask my subject about how it is We, as Witnesses feel about the UN. Get them to thoroughly explain it, then, if it seems appropriate, that they might look at the papers, show them. Ask again, so what about this? Is this ok too? And just go from there.

  http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/pdfs/watchtower.pdf

  most of it's in the timing. timing and language are very important
• 

  TheListener

  
  Darcy, You said

  Second thought. You mentioned he, God, doesn't seem to want to do much with the individual. And that makes sense, because he has nearly always worked through an organization. The priests with the Israelites, the kings, the judges, all that hierarchy. Early Christians and their congregations and brothers and "traveling brothers" like Paul. And then the dispute for today, which organization is God using today? Also, there are all the scriptures that talk about worshipping with others. From Jesus (I think) who said where two or three are gathered there are enough to Paul in Heb. 10:24, 25 and David in Psalms 22.22 "I shall declare your name to my brothers, in the middle of the congregation i shall praise you." So organization is important to our Almighty. But again, much dispute over which one he is using.

  I didn’t say that (I don’t think) so I’m not sure if that is a response to someone else’s post. But, I will say that I used to believe God worked through an organization but since digging into the Bible I have come to realize that he mostly works through individuals. I’m not going to detail it out here but I think if you really check it out you’ll be surprised. Don’t go with the standard response that he used the Israelites as a nation and then the first century Christians. I did that for decades and I never really put serious thought into it until the past couple of years.

  I would add that Psalms 22:22 is less about meeting together in specific groups or settings than about proclaiming Jesus’ shed blood on our behalf. Since Psalm 22 is considered by most Christians to be prophetically discussing Jesus humiliation and exaltation. Also, Hebrews 10:24, I agree it is enjoyable to discuss biblical topics with others and share faith. I find it encouraging to do so. To take that scripture and institutionalize it is quite another matter.

  I say that Christ didn’t point to any organization as selected or chosen over another. To presume that Jehovah needs a man-managed organization to fulfill his promises presumes too much. All men have been released from the bondage of sin and death. Jehovah can use and make righteous whomever he chooses – regardless of organizational affiliation.

  Is building our faith in Jesus sacrifice and what it means to us important? You bet. Is associating with those of likemindedness helpful in this regard? You bet. Must we be a part of a specific organization to do so? No. The only organization we must belong to is the body of Christ and that knows no bounds.

  Also, you said

  Hmm... I can't read your post while I write this so I can't remember the other things. Oh oh, the faith and works... I wanted to add that works must be important because James says without them, faith is dead. Myself, I'd compare it to having an animal. You can say you love that animal as much as your want, but if you don't feed, care, and pet the creature adequately, then your words are empty. And you can see the application that would have to faith and works.

  I put my thoughts down in my previous post and don’t have much to add. I will add this thought though. Make sure that any works that you do are motivated by the faith you have. Not faith that the witnesses are the one true religion, but faith that Jesus died for your sins and is the mediator for you to have a relationship with Jehovah. That’s the key. Don’t auxiliary pioneer, conduct studies, comment, give talks, etc etc in hopes of pleasing God. Those things please the congregation but it’s your faith that pleases God. The works James mentions in chapter 2 aren’t the works of teaching others in the door to door ministry but of caring for others physical needs (Jas. 2:15). Our sacred service to Jehovah must be focused on showing others the good affects our faith brings us and helping others in a physical way (See WT10/1/76 - Sacred Service Rendered Day and Night - yes it might be rather old but it's a beautifully written and encouraging article).
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  myelaine

  dear Satanus

  I like the sound of this...

  You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.

  You shall keep My statutes. You shall not let your livestock breed with another kind. You shall not sow your field with mixed seed. Nor shall a garment of mixed linen and wool come upon you. (Leviticus 19:17-19)

  love michelle
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  TheListener

  I don't mean to be rude but can Satanus and Myelaine create a new topic thread for your "discussion."

  very humbly asked.
• 

  sir82

  Darcy,

  Sounds reasonable.

  OK, so you go thru your routine, the elder says "we believe the UN is the '8th king', 'the image of the wild beast', 'a counterfeit of God's kingdom'. etc. Jehovah's Witnesses steer clear of anything to do with the UN"

  And you say "Look at these papers. What about this? Is this OK too?"

  Suppose your elder pal says "Look, that letter was obviously produced by an apostate, somebody hacked the UN site, or something. Have you been reading apostate websites?"

  Now what do you say?