For Darcy, what do you think is necessary for salvation?

by TheListener 77 Replies latest jw friends

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    carmel said...

    "It's our birthright! Relax, investigate reality for yourself, be guided by what you find! All things come to them who are patient! "

    Paul said...

    O full of deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time. And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand." (Acts 13:10-11)

    michelle says...

    It is your right(freewill) to listen to the blind dude....

    love michelle

  • wanderlustguy
    wanderlustguy

    Maybe a better question would be, why do you think salvation is necessary?

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    Maybe Wanderlustguy, maybe.

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    Darcy, I thank you for your response. My internet time is limited and sometimes it takes me some time to respond to a thread.

    I liked your answer. You did what I was hoping you’d do. Answered from your own thoughts and not just parrot a WT article. It sounds easy to do but it isn’t.

    In response I’m not critiquing or debating your post but putting my thoughts on paper. I’ve not put these particular thoughts down before and may not be able to defend each thought as well as I should. I quoted some scriptures and cited others, but I hope this doesn’t sound preachy because it really is just my current viewpoint. I’m constantly learning and refining my viewpoint. (ask AuldSoul, he schools me every chance he gets ).

    One of the things I’ve been looking at is: what is God’s will? I don’t have a definitive answer but I agree that we clearly must follow it. My first thought was God’s will is to make the earth a paradise and for us to live on it forever. I felt afterall that that was his original plan. But, after reviewing various scriptures and letting the Bible itself plainly tell me God’s will I changed my opinion. In John 6:35-40 Jesus tells us what God’s will is (I’ll quote 6:40) : “For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son, and believes on him, should have life eternal; and I will raise him up at the last day.” Also, Paul tells us at 1 Thess. 4:3 that it’s God’s will that we don’t fornicate. I find 1 Thess. 4:3 interesting in light of 1 Cor. 6:18 where Paul tells us that fornication is a sin against our own body. Tied in with the verses that tell us that our body belongs to Christ it seems to make sense. Now when I read the Lord’s prayer about God’s will being done on earth as it is in heaven I focus on the death of Jesus and its meaning for mankind and how God wants all to live. Whether that be by means of a paradise earth or a heavenly existence is a discussion for another day.

    As far as opposing God’s will I would say that the Bible is pretty clear that lack of belief in Jesus Christ ransom sacrifice is a key to that (1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7).

    One of the most difficult things, at least for me, is maintaining the fine balance between faith and works.

    The scriptures clearly state that faith in Jesus ransom sacrifice are all that is necessary to gain everlasting life (I won’t quote them but when you have time check them out – John 3:36; John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Romans 3:22; Eph. 2:8,9; there are others but I think these make the point).

    Is work necessary? According to Paul it appears not. But according to James works appear crucial (James 2: 14-20). Read Romans the 2nd chapter and James the 2nd chapter and you’ll see the striking difference in their viewpoint immediately.

    Is there a conflict? I personally don’t think so. Paul and James, while not best of friends, agree that faith is the precursor to works. Paul agrees with James that faith will produce works (Eph. 2:10) and James agrees that works are a product of faith. So which comes first? Faith. True faith causes us to what? Produce works. Are the works necessary for salvation? No. But, we can’t get around that if we have faith (which is necessary for salvation) works will follow. If we don’t see any works in our life; well, perhaps our faith isn’t what we thought.

    I also have had difficulty in reconciling the do’s and don’ts of the Bible. First I’m told that faith in Jesus is all I need and that everything except blasphemy will be forgiven then I’m told ‘oh yeah but you can’t do this, that or the other thing.’ Which is it; faith or following the rules? Paul is pretty clear in Galatians 5 that those who practice (or perform repeatedly) works of the flesh will not inherit God’s kingdom.

    Again, after careful review I didn’t see conflict. In Galatians 5 where Paul discusses the works of the flesh he isn’t talking about someone who makes mistakes, even serious ones. He’s talking about someone who performs these things repeatedly. Someone who is habitual with the works of the flesh won’t inherit God’s kingdom. OK, so with all the do’s and don’ts the main thing I try to remember is my faith in Jesus Christ’s sacrifice is my basis for salvation. That faith motivates me to do things I may not do otherwise. Like what? I like discussing Bible topics with others, I feel good when I can help someone in need, whether financially, physically or spiritually, I am a happy person with a strong hope for the future which makes me smile and laugh and just basically be very friendly. If I commit a work of the flesh or some other serious sin I know I can be forgiven and beg God to do so.

    In a nutshell then I believe that our salvation depends upon faith in Jesus Christ’s ransom sacrifice. The works that flow from that faith are key to helping others, both believers and non-believers, and that following God’s will means believing in Jesus and allowing God’s spirit to be active in my life – which again motivate my thoughts and actions.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    wanderlustguy said...

    "Maybe a better question would be, why do you think salvation is necessary? " Vengeance is Mine, and recompense; their foot shall slip in due time; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things to come hasten upon them.(Deut 32:35) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.(Hebrews 10:31) If I sharpen My glittering sword, and My hand takes hold on judgment, I will render vengeance to My enemies, and repay those who hate Me. (Deut 32:41) So, if you like this sort of thing...before you go to hell...have a nice trip! love michelle

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Myelaine said:

    michelle says...

    It is your right(freewill) to listen to the blind dude....

    Some people would rather look through the eyes of a 2000 yrs past pharisaical jew than see through their own eyes what is or is not right in front of them. There are none so blind as those who will not see. She also condemnes those who refuse to share her vision, who prefer to explore things for themselves. Even dumb animals are better than this.

    S

  • myelaine
    myelaine


    dear Satanus,

    I don't have the power to condemn anyone.....except myself.....

    love michelle

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

    He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:17-18)

    love michelle

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Ps, also judgementalism and threats.

    I don't have the power to condemn anyone.....except myself.....

    What you do w or to yourself is your business. But, you gotta stop throwing around dire warnings and threats. You aren't any better, smarter, righteous, cleaner, generally, than anyone else here. Beliefs are like assholes, everyone has them. But, use them only in private, in public only on rare occasions.

    S

  • kid-A
    kid-A

    "So, if you like this sort of thing...before you go to hell...have a nice trip! love michelle" Oh my. Psycho-jesus lady has returned, and is off her meds again! LOL

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