Have We Been Purposely Mislead About 9/11?

by JamesThomas 68 Replies latest members politics

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    I have but a moment, and just noticed Navigator post, were he says:

    The World Trade Center has a unique structural design with most of the support columns on the exterior of the building and a central core for utilites, elevators, etc..

    I find this very interesting and touched on it somewhere above. The core is basically nothing/and the exterior column most important scenario is total b.s., and seems to arise to make people think there was no other choice but for the Towers to totally collapse. The core was the heart of the Towers and was responsible for the vast majority of vertical forces, like gravity.

    The cores were a hugely massive and redundantly strong structure within themselves with their own floor structures. Had everything collapsed around them, it would not have been surprising they remained standing; that they didn't, is very surprising. The core was a building within a building; huge steel columns interconnected to each other at each floor by large girders and I-beams; and further connected via a massive hat-truss on the roofs.

    Pictures speak a thousand words:

    Notice how they build the floors and exterior columns around the core structure which is built first.

    Notice how massive the core structure is compared to the exterior columns (which carried most of the horizontal loads (winds).

    And again:

    alt

    Hate-truss on the roofs (from NIST):

    alt

    alt

    This photograph shows the top of the hat truss of one of the towers during its construction.

    The core is the solid steel backbone of the Towers; and here is one of my main focuses in regards to the collapse. I hope to have more to say about it at a later date.

    j

  • sass_my_frass
    sass_my_frass

    But really, what does it matter who conspired to kill all those people and start a few wars? What difference is it going to make to your life if you find out? If you found out that it was a brilliant plan to get the country mobilised to war to secure dwindling energy resources, how is that going to change our everyday lives? Will we give the oil back? Refit the SUV with a hybrid engine? Put a wind generator on every building? I think not.

    As I recall, US voters discovered that their president had lied about the reasons for the war in Iraq, and they still re-elected him. What does it matter which loons conspired?

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    James

    The core was non-reinforced concrete. There are photographs that show the core was the last part to collapse.

    As I said above, this alone disproves demolition stories.

    Look at this;

    And this;

    Heated floor beams buckle and sag due to heating (just ordinary heating, not nearly enough to melt them but more than enough to reduce their strnegth by 50%); this is a fact, proven by external photos of the towers showing floors sagging. The expansion cause by heating also increases the lenght of the beams, pushing the outer columns out. This is also proven by photographic evidence.

    As it says in the second link above;

    "After the columns bowed, the weight was no longer going straight down. Like taking a straw and bowing it in the middle, it no longer can hold the same weight as it did when it was straight. The building tried to transfer the load to the core columns and massive hat truss on the roof. The weaken core, weakened by fire and impact, couldn't hold the massive weight from tilting. As with the perimeter column, the massive load on the deformed core columns gave way."

    All of this data is there for you ro study in links already provided, but you're still busy defending the Conspiracist theories when you've not studied the offical story well enough to see how perfectly it fits the evidence; the inner core was damaged by kinetic forces, weakened by heat, and then asked to support an asymetrical load way in excess of anything it was designed for.

  • Golf
    Golf

    JT, I've been a high steel worker since 1960. I 've worked on regular structural buildings, TWA hanger at Logan airport, powerhouses in Boston and worked on the 1962 World's Fair and I have pictures to prove it.

    My relatives who worked on the World Trade Center said it wasn't your 'normal' structural design and erection. Engineers can explain how things suppose to work but assembling/erecting large masses of steel together is a horse of a different color. Engineers can't explain how to assemble a structure, if so, I would welcome them to work beside me.

    My thoughts for now.

    Golf

  • glitter
    glitter

    Abaddon: Ta, that's really good info. It won't reach through the tinfoil though.

    I saw a documentary about the physics behind the collapse a couple of years ago and a senior NYC fireman said floor trusses were incredibly dangerous *in general* in fires, and were responsible for the deaths of many firemen over the years.

    I believe that if there had been bombs in the building, and it had been the government's/CIA's doing, then it would have been part of the original story! It happened before at the WTC, so "They" would just say that the terrorists rigged the building as back-up and to ensure it collapsed for a greater loss of life and as a *message*.

    If "They" had done that, then the story could have been that the bombers were on the loose - panic panic panic!

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Sorry, for long periods between posts. I work a small farm and have a spring project list as long as my arm; and I try as much as possible to give researched replies in my own words, which takes time.

    The core was non-reinforced concrete.

    I image this idea was gathered from the mass-media's official story; and it's not surprising as, for example, The NOVA's video places all of it's emphasis on the floor trusses and exterior columns, and shows the core as nothing but a stack of cards ready to fall. This is not REALITY. Perhaps NOVA should stick to crop-circles documentaries.

    The actual and real Tower construction pictures (which you seem to have missed), gives witness to a huge steel core structure, whose massiveness and bulk far exceeds the remaining framework. The core is what allowed the towers to reach for the sky. Huge steel columns with horizontal and diagnoally placed welded and bolted steel bracing were purposely designed and constructed to never crumble to the ground....unless intentionally made to. Which is why precision demolitions is such a refined science; and why the Towers were built around such massive cores. Why so much mass media disinformation which acts as if the core was little more than a place for elevators?

    As far as I have found (and I have down loaded over 600 pages of NIST material), the Towers where made of steel, and the ONLY CONCRETE used was poured 4" thick upon steel floor modules. The core was extra massive high strength steel. The exterior columns were steel. The floors were steel -- other than the 4 inches of surfacing concrete. This is REALITY as far as I can find. Take away the thin cement floor slabs and windows and you have totally steel buildings. It would be helpful to view the finale blue-prints, however they are not surprisingly under lock and key by the feds.

    It may help to actually examine as many photos of the Tower construction as possible to get a sense of what is real. Do a little deeper research outside the media story for the masses; and give it some critical thought as to why the officials are disseminating false information, if you find this to be the case as I have.

    In further regards to the cores seriously NOT being "non-reinforced concrete" but rather material far, far stronger that would not fall to the ground in a pile of dust, is the following which I am coping unedited out of NIST's Draft report on project 3: Mechanical and Metallurgical Analysis of Structural Steel. Found here.

    2.3.2 Core Columns

    Core columns were of two types: welded box columns and rolled wide flange shapes. The columns in the

    lower floors were primarily huge box columns as large as 12 in. by 52 in. (0.30 m by 1.32 m) composed

    of welded plates up to 7 in. (178 mm) thick. In the upper floors, the box columns transitioned to the

    rolled wide flange shapes. Fig. 2–6 indicates the transition floors for each of the core columns, and

    Fig. 2–7 shows typical geometries of box columns and wide flange columns at the 84th floor. Core

    columns were typically spliced at three-story intervals. The splices in the impact and fire zones of both

    buildings were at floors 75, 77, 80, 83, 86, 89, 92, 95, 98, and 101. Diagonal bracing was used at the

    mechanical floors and in the area of the hat truss. Core box columns were 36 ksi or 42 ksi. Core wide

    flange columns were specified to be one of four grades, but were primarily 36 ksi and 42 ksi steel; only

    about 1 percent of all the core columns were made of 45 ksi or 50 ksi steel.

    The core area was framed conventionally with beams.


    The above construction photos, posted previous, give a far better sense of what is being referred to in NIST's jargon.

    j

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    JamesThomas

    Like I say, you're looking at the Conspiracist claims soooo hard you've not given yourself the time required to 'get' how the official story you - and a host of self-appointed experts - presume is false.

    It is like a group of people claiming a boat hit by a torpedo sank due to demolition charges placed inside the boat without any passengers noticing or anyone involved speaking about it afterwards, when the impact of the torpedo and subsequent damage are enough to explain the sinking. A lot of what you claim is non-falsifiable. The credulity to believe such a massive conspiracy involving the murder of almost 3,000 people is 'hush-up-able' is staggering. One can't even shoot a few Iraqi villagers in revenge for your buddy being killed without it coming out, let alone get a blow-job in the Oval Office, but you strain out the gnat whilst swallowing the camel! But of course the supreme unlikelihood of such a Conspiracy surviving is something Conspiracist don't address as they are believers... and like believers of all sorts they ignore the illogical nature of their beliefs because that is what belief is all about...

    Fact; both the central columns and the perimeter columns took vertical loads from the floors, the core only took a bit more than the perimeter.

    Fact; the beams would have lengthened and sagged due to heating.

    Fact; this would have bowed the outer walls and sagged the floors; just as the photographs show.

    You don't really have any comeback to the photographic evidence supporting the official story, do you? You just ignore the photos match the story... or rather your sources do...

    Fact; at a certain point the attachment points would have failed; each was kept together with a handful of small bolts the thickness of a thumb. This is again proven by photographic evidence.

    Fact; fire protection was stripped from the cores and floors, extensively proven by eye-witness testimony, ya know people who were there. I should have said previously "the core wasn't reinforced with concrete" as distinct from "The core was non-reinforced concrete". This lack of protection allowed massive thermal weakening to take place quickly in the jet-fuel fuelled phase of the fire and the office-materials phase of the fire (the latter phase is often ignored by Conspiracists as they chunter on about temperatures and burn times of jet fuel desperately trying to make themselves credible).

    Fact; you have ignored (or rather your sources ignore) the asymmetrical nature of the collapse. BOTH towers' above the impact zones tilted during the collapse. Any kid who has built with Lego (let alone structural engineers) can tell you asymmetrical loads are BAD, and can bring stuff that is stable under a symmetrical load down quick as you like.

    In your eagerness to believe you have uncovered (along with a special few) the 'truth' (sorry to dig into the psychology of belief but it is relevant), you ignore the simple fact that without the perimeter columns, the floors would pancake. The strength of the attachment to the central core was not enough to hold the floors up without the perimeter columns.

    Given the fact the perimeter columns were vital to the structural integrity of the building, and the collapse event started asymmetrically, any claim the central core would have remained standing ignores the proven failure of the central core at the tilt points, and the subsequent overload and damage of lower core elements by the collapse of the building around it.

    And that's just in a "thought-experiment remove outer walls" mode.

    Looking at the actual event we see in WTC1 the south wall bowed inward due to the sagging of floor structures, causing failures of attachments and perimeter column instability, propagating across the south face. The wall "unloaded" and the hat truss redistributed the loads to a core weakened by heat damage. The building tilted south at around the impact point as the perimeter column instability extended along east and west walls, further increasing static load on the central column, let alone the fact it now had to deal with the change in potential energy due to the downward movement of the upper stories, or that the load was asymmetric (another thing your sources ignore) . This exceeded the strain energy the central column could have supported, and the building collapsed.

    In WTC2 it was the east wall that bowed and failed, the portion of the building above the impact zone tilted to the east,loads were transfered to a weakened core column and the north and south walls, further perimeter column collapse took place, more load was transfered to the core column, which was taken far beyond it's load capability especially considering the asymmetrical nature of the event, and the change in potential energy caused by the movement of the upper stories, and the building collapsed.

    You ignore the event is explainable using the official story and make much of so called 'mass media disinformation' when incredibly detailed analysis is easily and freely available. I don't see misinformation but the level of detail one gets when the mass media covers complex events, but as you've seemingly already made up your mind there is a Conspiracy, you'll leap to that conclusion as well.

    You also ignore the fact many Conspiracists ALSO make claims regarding WTC7 and the Pentagon that are patently ludicrous (no plane when eye-witnesses saw it hit, mysterious planes that aren't mysterious, and yet swallow down what they say about WTC1 and 2 (with all the partial quotes and deceptions) without ever considering whether their credibility is affected...

    Again, enjoy the research; I don't think there's much more that can be said about this as it seems to be more about a presupposition than anything to do with actual firm evidence of a demolition.

    ALL you have done is shown that some people believe in a logically unsustainable Conspiracy they cannot prove when the offical explanation for the event is quite satisfactory, just like some people belive in logically unsustainable magic skymen they cannot prove when evolution is quite satisfactory...

  • Leolaia
  • Mr. Kim
    Mr. Kim

    People cant handle the truth!.....LOL

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