by psycsnacha 101 Replies latest jw experiences
I would talk to the elder body about that. They might say that you being a baptized (?) Witness would have the obiligation not to give a transfusion. Just as a checker in the grocery store would not sell cigarettes. Unless they changed their thinking on this.
Juni
I honestly take most of the stuff I study from the WTS as the most accurate (of all the other denominations).
you no doubt have only studied the last four years of The Bible or should i say "publications" from the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. if you had been associated with the witnesses as long as some of us here, you could possibly see the cult like control they exercise over their followers. making being a "faithful witness" cumbersum with manmade rules that have nothing to do with one's faith in God or Jesus.
just my overview, however simplified
magoo
HI psyc, welcome to the forum!
If you're still studying, why don't you mention to the JWs you know that you're on an 'apostate' site, asking these questions? Why don't you ask them about the UN NGO situation? When they tell you that the WTS just wanted access to the UN libraries, then ask why they signed up for 5 NGO's? Wouldn't signing up for one NGO be sufficient for library access?
Ask them about Malawi/Mexico? A lot probably don't know about Mexico.
If you ask the tough questions, and you point out inconsistencies or flaws in the replies, you'll see one of the serious problem with JWs. And this kind of questioning will get a baptized JW disfellowshipped.
JWs are a high-control religion (some say a cult) who don't preach the Gospel that was preached in the first century and who don't practice love to the extent that Christ said his followers should.
A very illuminating exercise is to read the New Testament and compare that to the teachings of JWs. The JW may have some doctrines correct. However, 1 Corinthians 13:2 tells us that knowledge without love is nothing.
Welcome to JWD, psycsnacha !!
BTW, are you an unbaptised publisher?
Do you go out in Field Service?
1. It being prophesied that the gentile times would end and the last days would see some sort of rebirth of God's earthy people with an accompanying spread of the truth about God across the globe.THoughts? Do you all accept that the BIBLE says this? How can fulfillment of this be explained if not by the worldwide preaching work of the JWs? psysnacha
Here is what the bible says about the last days:
Heb 1:1-2 Long ago God spoke to the fathers by the prophets at different times and in different ways. In these last days, He has spoken to us by [His] Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things and through whom He made the universe.
So, when did this rebirth take place if these last days began around the time Hebrews was written?
I'll clarify. I've been attending JW meetings since middle school. Just started studying 4 years ago, using all of the time in between to search for my path towards Jehovah. I combed sites like this, sites of the various denominations, and spoke to countless people about the subject of Christianity. The kingdom hall was simply my base or foundation, yet I was never enslaved with the cult mindstate to turn away from everything else. Yes, it was preached to do so but ultimately one must seek out their OWN understanding of love.. We humans have free will and Jehovah wants us to love him. Love would be the motivation for us to submit ourselves to his way of rulership. Look at the Mosaic Law. But todays standards, those laws were much more harsh than any WTS standard but its no question (to bible believers at least) that those were directly given by Jehovah. And again I say that both Jews and 1st century christians were NOT immune to anything under the sun objectionable by Jehovah, yet they WERE used by Jehovah. Remember David's adultery?! The apostle Peter studied with Jesus himself! He was then warned that he would deny Jesus three times, and still did so! Mistakes to the highest degree are very much possible among God's people that's why our focus must most beyond mistakes of humans.
Regarding other specifics of me, and how I fit into the JW mold, I'll answer but that has little relevance. I'm me, a sinner, slave, whatever. Regardless of my path to Jehovah, I trust that he reads hearts and that's all that matters.
Good discussion though. Glad to be here.
yes, i go out into field service and the whole nine.
If most of you all are former JWs then you must have been trained to encourage others to gain a complete understanding of the bible rather than using specific scriptures to prove points. Scripture jousting will (and probably has multiple times in the past) open up another can of worms.
Welcome
JW hypocrites do not prove they are a cult, it is the structure of the belief system that does. Definitely read Steven Hassans Combating Cult Mind Control. The number one question that a person should ask before joining any controversial group is "Do you forbid members from talking to former members?" If so beware. What have they got to hide. Cults invariably insist on shunning.
The other key identifier that it is a cult is that the Governing Body and remnant acts as your mediator, Jesus is not your Mediator. It is common in cults that the leader or leaders replace Jesus as the Mediator, that is why they can then demand unquestioning obedience.
If you have had an unfavourable life, joining the Watchtower Society can be a great improvement. However, for those of us that were raised as Witnesses it is shocking. To grow up believing you would never have to graduate, never get a wrinkle or grow old, never have to work, or think about a retirement it is devastating to learn it was all a lie. For those who never set boundaries because it was all set for you (down to whether you can have a beard, smoke a cigarette or buy a lotto ticket), leaving in mid life is traumatic, as you have no idea of who you are or how you really should behave. But worst of all is around 2/3 of all JW children leave. Many were baptised in early teens, and have gone for years without any contact from their parents or family. One girl on this board was baptised and 13, d/f at 16 and has been shunned for 10 years. She just found out from a friend that her sister was married 2 years ago. That is not truth, not christian, that is a cult.
In regards to doctrine, the WTS is very inept at doctrine. They do Eisegesis formulations, particularly since Rutherford; that is, start with a result and look for scriptures to support it.
I recommend you read www.jwfacts.com to see the history of the doctrine as you will never be told any of this in a bible study. Doctrine such as blood and the use of the word Jehovah show how unscholarly the WTS has been with inventing doctrine. Subjects such as 'earthquakes' also show how loose with the truth Watchtower publications are.
I personally am no denomination now, though I believe in God and love life, an am confident that there is an afterlife. The bible says repeatedly it is heavenly so I imagine that to be true. Religions are generally just corporations, and corporations are only interested in their own survival.
I hope you find the information here to be of use, and that you decide to be part of a religion that allows freedom of choice, as that was the way God created man.
First let me say that I'm an atheist I don't believe in god at all. Certainly not the god of the bible or the divinity of Jesus! Those seem like simple collective hysteria to me now!
That said, I'd like to address your recent questions one at a time!
ultimately we aren't EXACTLY sure how Jehovah is working for us today.
If he's god shouldn't we BE sure?
If he really rained down fire from heaven on the enemies of the israelites wouldn't everyone back then have BEEN sure? If he did it then why not NOW? To put it simply there seems to be NO historical records of any of the miracles that god preformed for the israelites! There are no text detailing the millions of people who would surely have STREAMED to such a people to join in with a god who preformed clearly miraculous works! Yet there are records of people coming from all over the area to see the oracle in Greece who preformed 'miracles' with automatic doors self lighting torches moving floors etc (all tricks that we know how they were done) so why no massive influx in the ancient world to a god who did REAL miracles? The Babylonians, Egyptians, Norsemen, Greek's, Mongolians, Sumerians etc ALL claim that there gods did miracles and helped them in war why do the claims of the Jews carry more weight? It's obvious to me that he didn't do miracles then so why would I believe this book to begin with? The first half (or more) is clearly foolish nonsense, propaganda and murderous hysteria!
If God is really God shouldn't his purposes be obvious?
Do you all accept that we are in the last days now (regardless if it started in 1914 or not)?
No, life expectancy is longer now than at any point in history! Wars have less fatalities now than at any point in history! Earthquakes have less fatalities now than at any point in history! Fire flood famine all of these have less fatalities now than at any point in history! LIFE IS BETTER NOW THAT AN ANY POINT IN HUMAN HISTORY! Don't believe the WT lies on this they are LYING to try to make the end seem close it's just lies plain and simple!
Do you all accept that Jehovah's spirit is guiding an earthly form of his kingdom now?
No I do not accept that the Jewish god of war who was NEVER mentioned by Jesus by name even ONCE is any thing other than a myth! I don't expect that Thor is guiding any earthly form of Valhalla or Zeus is running an earthly Mt. Olympus it's all insanity!
What are you thoughts on Jesus's words that "the good news will be preached in all of the inhabited earth, and then the end will come?"
My thoughts on Jesus are simple he was a man! His words were written down a minimum of 70 years after they were reportedly said at that point the conversations were "remembered" in whatever way served the authors purpose best! Then years after THAT the church culled the collective writings to get the few that agreed with THEIR point of view! More insanity...
I think I accept the WTS on a very few lines of evidence, despite all that is involved with studying with the JWs.
I think most people do. They try to paint with broad strokes to get you hooked then they spend years narrowing you mind... Seems to me those years would be better spend in BROADENING your mind. Just my .02!
It being prophesied that the gentile times would end and the last days would see some sort of rebirth of God's earthy people with an accompanying spread of the truth about God across the globe.
Prophesied by who? For what ulterior motive? On what evidence? What truth? David Koresh made many many prophecies his followers have them all written down in books he died a martyr killed by the government of his time there are Branch Davidian congregations all over! Same with many of the white light churches! If they are still around in 1000 years and still have their book is it now true? Does the AGE of a book lend credence to the content there in? What about some crack pots like Nostradamus or Rasputin? Their writings are getting older and many believe they are true! Do they become true based on belief and or age?
Do you all accept that the BIBLE says this?
Do YOU accept all that the Koran says? The book of Mormon? Hindu? Shinto? Buddhist? Why one and not the others? The exact same reasoning that led you to the bible can be applied to all! Millions even Billions of people believe the same things about their holy books that you believe about yours! Why are YOU right and they are wrong?
How can fulfillment of this be explained if not by the worldwide preaching work of the JWs?
Go to your college take a clip board and interview the first 100 people you meet. Ask them "do you know what jehovah's witnesses believe." How can they be spreading gods word when KNOW ONE has a clue what they believe! Maybe 90% will say "they knock on doors and leave magazines,,," Maybe 70% will say "they don't celebrate Christmas" (You can then further ask; So are they christians? Most will say no, not a great result for 100 years of preaching eh!) out of the 70% maybe 30% will add birthdays and that will be about it! Since your premed there may be a few who know about the blood thing. That will be all... Out of 100 persons 99.9% will have no CLUE what the witnesses believe! So in what way is the preaching work of the JW's spreading "gods kingdom?" Hell I'll do you one better! Go to the kingdom hall and ask "why do we preach" most won't even have a straight answer... It's just silliness!
Anyway welcome to the forum hope you wake up before you get dipped! You sure as heck better finish up the school first unless you want to be told to drop out and become a janitor! LOL!
yes, i go out into field service and the whole nine. psycsnacha
How do feel about the following statements?
Does it matter to you that you teach people that Christ is not their mediator?
Or, did you know that this is the position of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society?
Don't take my word for it.
Here is the reference discussing it:
"WORLDWIDE SECURITY UNDER THE PRINCE OF PEACE"
chap. 1 pp. 9-12 pars. 14-20 The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide
14 With painful hurt to themselves, most of mankind do not desire to accept or to believe in the Almighty God’s provision for his worshipers to enjoy relative peace and security even in this most lamentable state of human affairs. However, Jehovah is “the God who gives peace,” and it is our blessed privilege now to enter into a peace and security that will never fail. (Romans 16:20; Philippians 4:6, 7, 9) It is a peace and security that he gives even now to his body of earthly servants, his visible organization, in fulfillment of his ever-reliable promises. It is a peace and security that we can enjoy only in association with his visible organization on earth.
15 It would be out of line with the plain teachings of the Scriptures to believe that God does not have an organization, an organized people, that he exclusively recognizes. Jesus Christ recognized that his heavenly Father had a visible organization. Until Pentecost 33 C.E., it was the Jewish organization in covenant relationship with Jehovah God under the Law of Moses.—Luke 16:16.
16 Just as the ancient nation of Israel was in a covenant relationship with Jehovah God through the mediator Moses, so the nation of spiritual Israel, “the Israel of God,” has a covenant relationship through a mediator. (Galatians 6:16) It is as the apostle Paul wrote to his Christian fellow worker: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5) Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants. Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members. This spiritual nation is like a little flock of Jehovah’s sheeplike ones.—Romans 9:6; Revelation 7:4.
Here is the portion I have the most problem with:
Was Moses the mediator between Jehovah God and mankind in general? No, he was the mediator between the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and the nation of their fleshly descendants.
This is a lie. Outright contradiction against the Scriptures. This is why:
(1) Moses brought out of Egypt the Israelites and a vast mixed company of non-Israelites. He was the mediator also for these. These also agreed to serve God. These also gave sacrifices and were bound to the law of Moses. They WERE NOT fleshly descendants of Abraham, nor were they alien residents in the Land of Promise.
(2) Proselytes were welcome, and for anyone who was willing to agree to the covenant of the Mosaic Law—and in the case of males, undergo circumcision—Moses became the mediator between God and man.
You know Moses was the mediator for anyone who wished to come into that favored relationship. But the doctrine of "other sheep" who have a different hope requires this lie. The doctrine of "other sheep" requires a different shepherd than Jesus, another "go-between," another mediator.
If Jesus is not your mediator, who is?
If someone else is your mediator, how is it that you have been listening to the voice of the owner? (John 10:1-21)
