There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998

by Elsewhere 109 Replies latest jw friends

  • FreeWilly
    FreeWilly

    I'd have to agree with Both Ballistic and Dan.

    Ballistic - those are good, honest reasons. Human impact on Earth is very damaging and a larger portion of our resources should be devoted to lessening or reversing the damage. I for one am not challenging your expertise, nor your intent. I am merely curious how others respond to accepted data.

    Dan - I also have little tolerance for GW naysayers. It's clear from numerous studies that our climate is in an overall warming trend. Sure there are brief cooling variations, but it's been trending warmer for many thousands of years. It's behaving precisely as it has in all the previous interglacial periods. To deny GW is to deny science.

    However, before committing a Trillions of Dollars on what could turn out to he a farse, maybe we should figure out if CO2 has much of an effect at all on Atmospheric temperature.

    Here's another interesting graph of CO2 concentrations and their relationship to Global temperatures. Notice the Ice Ages when CO2 levels were over 1000% higher than they are now! (Ordovician period) Global Temperature and Atmospheric CO2 over Geologic Time

    Late Carboniferous to Early Permian time (315 mya -- 270 mya) is the only time period in the last 600 million years when both atmospheric CO2 and temperatures were as low as they are today (Quaternary Period ).

    Temperature after C.R. Scotese http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm CO2 after R.A. Berner, 2001 (GEOCARB III)

    If your still reading here's a great article you may want to browse:

    "More than 15,000 scientists, two-thirds with advanced academic degrees, have now signed a Petition against the climate accord concluded in Kyoto (Japan) in December 1997. The Petition....

    http://www.sepp.org/pressrel/petition.html

  • osmosis
    osmosis

    For the Mars thing, the best theory I'm aware of to explain why it has little atmosphere left is the loss of it's electromagnetic field. The EMF does a lot to prevent the natural erosion of the atmosphere due to factors like the solar wind. On Earth, where we still have our EMF, the solar wind gets directed toward the planetary magnetic poles, causing the aurora borealis, or northern lights.

    For the environment thing, we just don't know for sure what is causing the temperature fluctuation. We don't even know what the temperature is supposed to be, therefore we don't know if we're actually buggering up the planet or not. We just don't know, and anyone who says they do is pullin' yer leg.

    As for the environmental movement, most of them are joiners who incredulously accept the alarmist and naive claims of a few people who know little, yet talk a lot. They make wild claims, like every year 10,000 species go extinct, and similar BS. Press them for real data, it quickly becomes apparent they have none.

    According to the people who really seem to know what the reliable data actually says, the world is not going to hell in a handbasket. In fact, on many fronts we are much better off than, say, 100 years ago. Of course, they have concerns, but instead of marching on city hall and yelling and screaming, they quietly and with dignity work towards a solution.

  • one
    one

    President Clinton was and should still be a well informed person, and he said:.

    november 11 2000

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1018813.stm

    "President Clinton has told Americans that climate change is a reality, and that the United States faces serious damage as a consequence.

    Mr Clinton said the threat of global warming was "one of the greatest challenges we face". "

    -----

    five years later...

    January 11 2006

    http://science.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1089827.php/Clinton_calls_climate_change_worlds_no_1_issue

    Davos, Switzerland - Former US President Bill Clinton on Saturday called for action against climate change, saying that it was the biggest threat to human civilization.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    I have no doubt that Global Warming is occurring.

    I have plenty of reason to doubt the correlation asserted to increasing accumulation of "greenhouse gasses" with no ready reference to the quantity of gasses present at any previous point from which to build a model.

    Global Warming has been a populist field of study for more than five years. So why can't someone show me records of the quantity of greenhouse gasses five years ago, or ten years ago, or 80 years ago, compared to the quantity present today?

    Fact is, we are almost technologically advanced enough to get a reasonable baseline estimate to work from going forward. Fact is, no one knows how much atmospheric greenhouse gas there was ten years ago, so not one single scientist can scientifically state that there has been any increase at all of greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. All a scientist can scientifically state is that the level of greenhouse gas emissions has risen, because they don't have any data to work from for use in developing a further scientific statement.

    As to the impacts of increased emissions, they can't give you any hard data answers because they know that we don't have enough data yet from which to extrapolate hard data answers. They are using the Global Warming version of Drake's Equation, and equation which can mean anything is meaningless and becomes nothing more real than an expression of someone's prejudice in numeric form.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul (of the Global Warming yea-sayers, and "greenhouse gasses" jury-is-still-out-sayers classes)

  • osmosis
    osmosis

    Since when is Clinton a well-informed person regarding the environment?

    Just because he's willing to pay lip service to the cause doesn't mean that he's willing to actually support it, nor does it mean he actually believes it.

    "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine


    FreeWilly, I did browse that site (http://www.sepp.org/pressrel/petition.html), and it's, for lack of a better word, hokeyness made me suspicious. Along with the claim of "15,000" scientist having signed the petition, lol. Geez, I effing hate liars, but I'm a better liar than that. It's almost like Dr. Evil asking for a ....a... a million (!) dollars.

    So, I plugged Frederick Seitz' (who I am not argueing doesn't have the credentials, but he certainly doesn't seem to be engaging in current, honest debate) name into source watch, and came up with this (some of which is downright comical):

    Leipzig Declaration on Global Climate Change

    From SourceWatch

    The Leipzig Declaration on Global Climate Change claims to be a petition from "scientists concerned with atmospheric and climate problems" who deny that human greenhouse gas emissions are causing global climate change. According to the declaration, "there does not exist today a general scientific consensus about the importance of greenhouse warming from rising levels of carbon dioxide. In fact, most climate specialists now agree that actual observations from both weather satellites and balloon-borne radiosondes show no current warming whatsoever."[1] (http://www.sepp.org/leipzig.html)

    The Leipzig Declaration emerged from a November 1995 conference, "The Greenhouse Controversy," cosponsored by S. Fred Singer's Science and Environmental Policy Project and the European Academy for Environmental Affairs in Leipzig, German. It has been widely cited by conservative voices in the "sound science" movement and is regarded in some circles as the gold standard of scientific expertise on the issue. It has been cited by Singer himself in editorial columns appearing in hundreds of conservative websites and major publications, including the Wall Street Journal, Miami Herald, Detroit News, Chicago Tribune, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Memphis Commercial-Appeal, Seattle Times, and Orange County Register. Jeff Jacoby, a columnist with the Boston Globe, describes the signers of the Leipzig Declaration as "prominent scholars." The Heritage Foundation calls them "noted scientists," as do conservative think tanks such as Citizens for a Sound Economy, the Heartland Institute, and Australia's Institute of Public Affairs. Both the Leipzig Declaration and Frederick Seitz's Oregon Petition have been quoted as authoritative sources during deliberations in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives.

    When journalist David Olinger of the St. Petersburg Times investigated the Leipzig Declaration, however, he discovered that most of its signers have not dealt with climate issues at all and none of them is an acknowledged leading expert. Twenty-five of the signers were TV weathermen - a profession that requires no in-depth knowledge of climate research. Some did not even have a college degree, such as Dick Groeber of Dick's Weather Service in Springfield, Ohio. Did Groeber regard himself as a scientist? "I sort of consider myself so," he said when asked. "I had two or three years of college training in the scientific area, and 30 or 40 years of self-study." Other signers included a dentist, a medical laboratory researcher, a civil engineer, and an amateur meteorologist. Some were not even found to reside at the addresses they had given.

    A journalist with the Danish Broadcasting Company attempted to contact the declaration's 33 European signers and found that four of them could not be located, 12 denied ever having signed, and some had not even heard of the Leipzig Declaration. Those who did admit signing included a medical doctor, a nuclear scientist, and an expert on flying insects. After discounting the signers whose credentials were inflated, irrelevant, false, or unverifiable, it turned out that only 20 of the names on the list had any scientific connection with the study of climate change, and some of those names were known to have obtained grants from the oil and fuel industry, including the German coal industry and the government of Kuwait (a major oil exporter).[2]

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    I would think the tree hugging, granola crunching, hairy arm pitted, dredlocked persons on the planet would be happy if we screwed up the "environment" just enought to make homosapiens extinct... that'd be a pipe dream to them...

    Then the trees and spotted owls could live forever in peace and harmony... and I'd buy the world a Coke!

    u/d(of the hates extreme radical the sky is falling tree huggers....yet hugs a tree now and then class)

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    I would think the tree hugging, granola crunching, hairy arm pitted, dredlocked persons on the planet would be happy if we screwed up the "environment" just enought to make homosapiens extinct... that'd be a pipe dream to them...

    Another contemptuous sneer from the naysayer crowd. See what I mean!

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    um..... I don't say "nay"....I say NO F*CKING WAY!!!

    I quit one doomsday cult mindset...and you'd have me exchange it for a new one?

    NO F*CKING WAY!!!

    u/d(of the contemputously sneering class)

  • MegaDude
    MegaDude

    My respect for environmentalists nosedived over the Kyoto Accords hysteria but to each their own. I believe there is no proof that humans are causing global warming such as it is. We all rely on various "experts" for our opinions. My contact with environmentalists in my job is they are unbalanced and are prone to exaggerated claims. But human nature being what it is, that might be a good thing. They may bring a sense of balance in the face of rabid corporations that would consume our natural resources as quickly as possible for profit.



    I would recommend reading the following short and concise speeches by Michael Crichton to add to the hysteria we get from the news media. I think you'll find them enjoyable to read even if you disagree with his conclusions.


    The site is here. You'll have to go there and then click on the speeches. I recommend the two below. Like I said, they are an easy read and enjoyable.
    http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/

    "Fear, Complexity, Environmental Management in the 21st Century"
    Washington Center for Complexity and Public Policy, Washington, D.C.
    November 6, 2005

    "Aliens Cause Global Warming"
    California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, CA
    January 17, 2003

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit