Biting my tongue at last nights bookstudy

by GBSJG 35 Replies latest watchtower bible


    Yes you start thinking are they al so stupid or am I so smart? On the other hand there was a time that I used to believe this, somehow you don't notice these things or you don't want to see it.
    I find that one of the hardest things of the org that you are not allow to think independent. As others have pointed out the org has won many court cases defending freedom of speech but it's not allowed in the org itself.

  • Van Gogh
    Van Gogh

    Welcome to this board GBSJG!

    The level of cognitive dissonance is indeed distressing; unfortunately, I myself have again had some harrowing reminders of this in the past weeks myself.
    I find it to be a fascinating phenomena that I’m able to analyze on a cerebral level, but emotionally and on a personal level harder and harder to deal with. I stopped visiting JWD and posting for a while as at the time I felt I needed to leave things behind me and focus positively on my future private situation.
    The WT/JW belief system and practices seem to tap into something profoundly vulnerable; seeing it for what it is, is a Kafkaesque experience: a (former?) close JW friend – well read and erudite for that matter - recently likened me to those living in the Nazi era that were caught up in their hateful delusions. We can understand the ‘others’ for all we like – we were there ourselves, weren’t we? – but it is a one-way street, there is zero understanding on ‘their’ part. It sometimes drives you insane.
    Somewhere on this forum recently I read the system ‘steals your soul’. Especially having been brought up in it, some can feel violated and betrayed. In ‘good faith’ many of us from innocent trusting childhood onward adopted and actively propagated its beliefs via our well-meaning parents. Like many victims in an abusive cycle we feel complicit and part of our anger is directed against ourselves for being so compliant.
    The ongoing association with it (in this case the book study) seems to act as a lobotomy-inducing poison for most. For a minority it provokes impotent anger calling for an antidote of constantly reaffirming common sense. In this case the Daniel book acts like a soothing opium. Try merely telling a drug addict or alcoholic his ways are destructive and arresting his/her personal development into lethargy. Words and arguments don’t cut it for those that are not ready or willing. It goes much deeper than that.
    For many of us it were the negative experiences that finally induced us to think further; as much as words and arguments were not the sole reason for many to join the religion in the first place, and words and arguments in the field service, to our once amazement, fail(ed) to trick people into it. That is why many of us need to return to this board time and again for personal and mutual support, our spiritual AA for defense.
    Walk on; keep walking; you are not alone.


  • Elsewhere
    "After 1925 passed, the holy ones no longer served God with an immediate, explicit deadline in view."

    - So after the date passed they understand that they where wrong "With all these prophetic marks to identify “the holy ones of the Supreme One,” what excuse can there be for failure to recognize them and associate with them?"

    So basically they are saying that they made a sht load of errors which proves they are Jehover's People (TM).

  • trevor


    So they said this at your book study.

    "At that time, there was a widely held view that pointed to 1925 as the year for the resurrection to begin and for Paradise to be restored to the earth. Thus, many were serving with a fixed date in mind."

    They tried the same fudge in 1975 in an attempt to blame the member ship for their disappointment that year:

    “1925 was a sad year for many of the brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed. They had hoped to see some of the ‘ancient worthies’ (men of old like Abraham) resurrected. Instead of it’s being considered a ‘probability,’ they read into it that it was a ‘certainty’ and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of the resurrection

    .” (1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses - Page - 146)

    Apparently the disappointed members had “read in to it that it was a certainty.” How else does one understand the statements made by the Society’s president in the 1920 booklet, “Millions Now Living Will Never Die?”

    “As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925.”

    “Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews chapter eleven, to the condition of human perfection.”

    “Then, based upon the promises set forth in the divine Word, we must reach the positive and indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die.”


    Actually trevor it was a direct quot from the study book (Daniels Prophecy) You can find it in Chapter 17 Pargraph 25:
    25 Even after the convention in 1922 (shown on page 302), some of God’s holy ones were still looking longingly to the past. The basic study material for their meetings was still the Bible and the volumes of Studies in the Scriptures, by C. T. Russell. At that time, there was a widely held view that pointed to 1925 as the year for the resurrection to begin and for Paradise to be restored to the earth. Thus, many were serving with a fixed date in mind. Some proudly refused to share in the work of preaching to the public. This was not a happy state of affairs.
    But indeed the WTS never directly admits that they where the ones that came up with these dates. You will never see an apology but instead they will blame the R&F for thinking that way.

  • hamsterbait


    You are so right about the dates not matching up. Taking into account leap years and using 365 day years the assemblies concerned all happened on the wrong dates.

    Years ago I sat down with a calendar and paper. None of them work.

    Even if they did, Rutherford could easily have said: "Make sure my next freakin' talk is 1335 days from this pile of ***** Freddie just gave me - it will still be 1335 days too soon. pass me the spirit."

    HB (of the Hating Bull***t class)

  • anewme

    You are so right!!!!

    When prophecies they declare dont come true they blame the brothers and sisters for believing it!!!!

  • Lilycurly

    Hmmm...I remember those kind of comments. It feels like everyone is trying to convince themselves about this nonsense by saying it outloud. And when you hear everyone stating some facts as if pure logic, you start to beleive it too...I guess that's why studies like that exist. The WT knows it's psychology.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I too went through the same things. The most frustrating part was to hear these people talk about the "history" of the organization like they acutally knew what they are talking about. All they did was recite what the paragraph said!
    The worst part about it is how the Society never admits that the organization itself was the proponent of the 1925 date. Instead it talks about how it was a "widley held view", something that seems unofficial and not taught by the leaders but instead was created by greedy believers amongst the membership. The reasoning for this goes beyond all logical sense.
    As much as people would like to deny it, the WTS has become what it hates. They ridicule and belittle other religions for not basing all of their teachings on the bibile, but they themselves go way beyond scripture to gain strenght among the membership. Much of the prophecy in that study has been said to have been fullfilled during the time of the Macabees. People need to ask themselves, is there a benifit to the WTS if they choose an interpretation that favors their organization over one that favors history? Of course it does! All I have to say about this is Romans 2. If you want to judge other people for believing things that are unscriptual, then stop doing it yourself first.

  • SloBoy

    " ever give a comment and told the real truth"

    Whoooaaa, hold on there. Let's just cut through all the flowery oratory and call what it is:


    . Yeah, that's right. Anyone who would even dare to approach a ' true ' comment, well heck, they just might as well have stood-up and ripped-off a stinky ol' loud one and then giggled hysterically.

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