Wow that UN scandal really DOES work wonders

by osmosis 98 Replies latest jw friends

  • AuldSoul


    In answer to your question , It-Sec , my basic train of thought is that in essence there are 2 issues here -
    1... Should the WTS have any dealings with the UN ;
    As far as the issue of “doing business” with the UN is concerned , I don’t see how the WTS has any choice. A few years ago , I was involved as a director of a company working in East Africa (great - blown my cover now to anyone who knows me!) and I saw at first hand how the UN and its agencies are very influential - it would be almost impossible to work independently. JWs , being involved all over the world & dealing with freedom of religion , legal registration & human rights issues they would have no choice but to engage with the UN.
    2... Were they caught in an outright lie when “found out”?
    I suppose this comes down to trust. For one thing , I know Paul Gillies in London who wrote the reply letter to the Guardian - you couldn’t meet a nicer or more mild individual - he is physically incapable of telling or relaying what would be an outrageous lie. I honestly think the society did not realise the implications of signing up to NGO status - whether they didn’t read through the paperwork initially or the terms changed (or both).

    I would like to take the opportunity to respond to both these points separately.

    1: Should the WTS have any dealings with the UN

    There is a distinct difference between "doing business" with the UN—which IMO would not constitute hypocrisy—and becoming a member of a UN departmental section. An Application to Associate to the UN/DPI was filled out in toto, was properly signed, supporting materials were collected, and the lot of it was submitted to the DPI Committee on NGOs. Whether this application was approved or denied, the act of applying was in itself gross wrongdoing. It clearly demonstrated a desire to "become a part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible" and one that is "under judgement by Jehovah God."

    Now, the WTS responds that they were not becoming part of the UN. That is technically true, however they were becoming part of the UN/DPI, and Associate member of it, in point of fact—the closest relationship to the UN/DPI available to an NGO like the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. So, apart from an examination of the UN, let us focus entirely on the UN/DPI.

    According to the teachings of the WTS, is the UN/DPI an organization with objectives contrary to the Bible? Unquestionably, yes. It is the public voice of the UN; it is the promotional and propagandistic arm of the UN. It is the agency through which the world will become admirers of the UN (per WTS dogma).

    What does the Governing Body say about such memberships?

    Concerning those who renounced their Christian faith in his day, the apostle John wrote: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us." (1 John 2:19) For example, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of a secular organization that has objectives contrary to the Bible and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Isa. 2:4; Rev. 19:17-21) If a person who is a Christian chooses to join those who are disapproved by God, a brief announcement is made to the congregation, stating: "[Name of person] is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses." Such a person is treated in the same way as a disfellowshipped person. The presiding overseer should approve this announcement. (Organized to Do Jehovah's Will, p. 155, par. 2)

    Hypocrisy is inescapably evident in that a different standard applies to the organization than the standard that applies to individuals.

    2: Were they caught in an outright lie when “found out”?

    You stated correctly that it comes down to an issue of trust. Paul Gillies trust, in point of fact, not an issue of your own trust of Paul Gillies. Paul Gillies would have to be suspicious of the story he was told to relay anything other than he relayed. I don't believe he lied, I believe he communicated someone else's lie in complete trust that he was told the whole truth.

    However, either he was lied to or he was lying, as there is no other possible explanation for the differences between his responses to The Guardian and the response I received some years later. Since I choose to credit your description of his integrity, I can only assume he was fooled into parroting an untruth. Either way, he communicated a lie—whether his or someone else's.

    Your comment regarding "the paperwork" betrays ignorance of the approval process. One of the questions on the aplication they submitted asked what reason the applicant wished to Associate to the UN/DPI. For any one of Jehovah's Witnesses to enter ANY response into that box is gross wrongdoing, and sugar-coating it as anything else is a blatant attempt at self-deception. There is no reason, not even under threat of death, for any of Jehovah's Witnesses or any of their affiliated organization to ever apply to Associate to the UN or any of its Departments and/or Sections.

    Certainly, something as trivial as library access is a figurative "bowl of the red," for which an inheritance was sold. It was spiritual fornication according to the doctrine of the Governing Body.

    On to another topic, to EVERYONE:

    Administrative Center for Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia

    It seems there is continued misunderstanding about the term NGO. In my opinion, it is critical that everyone who speaks about this matter get clearly in mind that the term "NGO" has no direct correlation to the UN or its agencies whatsoever. I called the UN/DPI NGO Section this morning and confirmed my suspicion that the non-governmental organization (its organizational nature being non-governmental) known as "Administrative Center for Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia" is not now, nor has it ever been connected with the UN or its agencies in any way. To state that it has is to lie.


  • sf

    Text from the Global Policy Forum link:

    after 10 year Relationship with UN Made Public

    Jehovah's Witnesses Quit UN Affiliation
    after 10 year Relationship with UN Made Public

    October 30, 2001

    Responding to criticism from current and former members the Watch Tower Society (parent organization for Jehovah's Witnesses) this month withdrew its formal association with the United Nations as a NGO (non-government affiliate organization). The Watch Tower Society had quietly affiliated with the UN in 1991 in an agreement to "support the Charter" of the United Nations--also agreeing to promote the UN among its members.

    Watch Tower publications have long labeled the UN as one of the "beasts" of the biblical book of Revelation--the archenemy of the kingdom of God. Some critics of the 6 million member denomination, well known for its aggressive door to door missionary work, believe this is the greatest scandal to hit Watch Tower leadership. "It's comparable to a Catholic finding out that the Vatican had privately agreed to support Planned Parenthood and abortion rights, "stated ex-member David Brown of Central Point, Oregon.

    The refusal of Witnesses to salute a flag, perform military service, vote or hold public office has often brought them official persecution. Apparently, the Watch Tower Society's affiliation with the United Nations was to get help in their religious freedom struggles. "Their affiliation with the UN as a NGO was much more than just registering with the UN to get help for their members," says Brown.

    In a letter explaining the sect's withdrawal as a UN affiliate, UN official Paul Hoeffel states that NGO membership involves "support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities." The Watch Tower Society's affiliation with the UN gave them political clout, status and connections they could not have had otherwise. The connection was not announced in Witness publications and was only recently discovered when it was noticed that the Watch Tower Society was listed on a UN webpage as a NGO member.

    The public criticism of this connection led to the Watch Tower's disassociation as a UN affiliate. "In October 2001, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York requested termination of its association with DPI[Department of Public Information of the UN]. Following this request, the DPI has made decisions to disassociate the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York as of 9 October 2001," explains UN official Hoeffel.

    Membership as a NGO of the UN required annual re-certification. "There have been several seemingly positive articles in the Witnesses' news magazine Awake! discussing the UN in the past few years. It seemed out of character to read such things in Watch Tower publications but it didn't make sense why they were there until now," says Brown. "The Society's Writing Department evidently used UN press releases for Awake! articles and then they could submit these to show they were informing their members of UN activities and keep their NGO membership."

    Ex-members and many current members feel this was hypocrisy of the highest caliber. Witness theology has understood the United Nations as "the disgusting thing that causes desolation" (from Matthew's gospel) and as "the image of the wild beast" from Revelation chapter 13. Witnesses believe that all other religions have prostituted themselves to the UN (their interpretation of "Babylon the Great" riding the "scarlet colored wild beast" in Revelation chapter 17) and that soon the UN will turn on "false religion" (all other religions) and destroy them. Improbable as that scenario is the Witnesses believe that because of their "strict neutrality in political affairs" they will not be affected when the UN acts to destroy "false religion" (this being the immediate predecessor of Armageddon).

    "Most Witnesses have no idea that for the past 10 years the Watch Tower Society was certified as an affiliate organization of the UN along with Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants and other religious bodies promoting its agenda just as the other religions promote theirs," says Brown. "Actually, I think this was a positive development in the history of Jehovah's Witnesses. Unfortunately, it was hypocritical to do so while demonizing the UN in their doctrinal publications. Sadder still, the Watch Tower organization continues to maintain a policy that effectively excommunicates members who get involved in any political activity."

    The first official reply from a Watch Tower official was made by Paul Gillies of the Witnesses' branch office in Britian on October 22nd: membership as a NGO was simply a result of "getting a library card" at the UN facilities in New York. Gillies did not explain the annual re-certification process for NGO members which the Watch Tower Society participated in. Nor did he comment on the numerous articles in Awake! which promoted the UN.

    "This was not a one-time application the Watch Tower Society made where they didn't realize what they were doing," says Brown. "This was a relationship renewed yearly resulting in their news magazine doing PR for the UN. This relationship resulted in favorable UN support for the Witnesses' human rights struggles."

  • sf

    NGOs and the UN

    In July 1996, ECOSOC reviewed and expanded its arrangements for consultation with NGOs and recommended that the General Assembly examine the question of the “participation of NGOs in all areas of work of the UN”. Thereafter, member states began negotiations but these soon stalled. The Secretary General wrote two reports. And nothing substantial has happened. NGOs have made some important informal advances but they have also suffered disappointing setbacks.

    In this section, Global Policy Forum monitors the participation of NGOs at the UN. You will find information on the formal framework for NGOs at the UN as well as general analysis on NGOs and the UN. Also posted are documents on the relation of NGOs with main bodies of the UN such as the General Assembly and the Security Council, as well as the rest of the UN system.

    Basic Information on NGOs at the UN This section provides the history and present status of NGOs at the UN. It also contains links to the UN website for the list of accredited NGOs, calendars of UN events open to NGOs, and NGO sections in the UN system.

    NGOs and UN Main Bodies This section discusses NGO access and physical participation in major UN organs such as ECOSOC, the General Assembly and the Security Council. It also covers speeches by the Secretary General and reports on NGOs.

    Relations between NGOs and the UN This section analyzes the role, participation and contribution of NGOs in the UN system.

    NGO Access NGOs face a perpetual struggle for access to UN bodies and meetings. This page follows NGO access issues and also includes in depth coverage of access to the Official Document System.

    Problematic NGOs This section considers issues of accredited NGOs that challenge UN values and damage NGO reputation. It also considers problematic NGOs that seek accreditation or access to UN meetings and conferences.

    Links This section contains links to NGO websites as well as UN organ sites that focus on NGO-UN relations.

  • scrubmaster

    He simply cannot grasp that it was not for a library card or they were 'tricked' into being members and fails to see the revelance in the whole thing. Blinders firmly attached.

    This would be the time to ask this question why would the organization need to get a library card or anything from an organization that is not approve by God? If a Witness were to say they were going into a church to get some religious information for research, what would happen to this person? When one thanks logically about it anyone as an individual that would get involved in some organization that is not approved of by the organization, they would get DF. No excuse given would be good enough, such as needing to get some information.

  • Honesty

    If any of you would like this info. sent anonymously to someone, let me know. I'll do it!

    Just seal and stamp the letters, place them in a large manila envelope or box if you have a lot of letters and send them to me. I'll go to one of the 3 nearby Post Offices and individually drop them in the outgoing mailbox. Within 3-4 days your loved ones will be able to open them up without a clue as to what they are.... until they atrt reading. The official letter from the UN with UN letterhead makes a great front page for them to see.

    My address is on

    Top left hand corner where the box says callsign search type in wd4awo and you've got me pegged.

    P.S. It's Ok the WACKTOWER's ship full of bots know where I live so I'm not afraid to let them know about my apostativities.

  • greendawn

    Had it not been for the strict standards to which they hold their own R&F this issue would have been a minor thing, but due to the great severity with which they judge they must also be judged severely.

  • AuldSoul

    I agree, greendawn. That is what makes it so bad. I can't see any way for them to wiggle around Romans 2:1-11.



    dozy...I don't know how long you have been a JW...but I'll tell you what effect this info had on my mom. She was a dyed-in-the-wool witness for over 50 yrs. She could count on one hand the times she ever missed a meeting or service. I had chicken-pox when I was 6 and she didn't miss the meeting for that, and I was SICK!!!!

    When she read the info about the U.N. which she had despised and preached about for 50 yrs as the "great harlot" and that the WTS was an NGO...she NEVER attended another meeting!!! She left a year before I did. I kept thinking they would apologize, but that never happened, only a "library card" excuse! Just wasn't good enough!!! Yeah, it is a BIG DEAL to anyone who truly bought into the organization!!! The ones who see this and don't leave have DENIAL issues that they can't address!

    Swalker (Needed Mom at home when sick!!!)


    After my last post, I feel that I need to add that my mom thought she was doing the right thing. We have a very good relationship and she has apologized and cried many times for raising us in this crazy religion. By the way, I am apologizing to my own sons for trying to raise them in the same religion. They both got over it as teenagers....I have apologized to them for putting them through this insanity as well. I was just a little more liberal in believing that they had a right to choose the road they wanted to take as they were older. MY sons and I are very close and I never went along with treating them badly because they didn't attend meetings. They meant the world to me and still do.


  • serendipity

    There were 5 or 6 NGO's registered by the WTS. Why did they need more than 1 for a library card? If they wanted to use the advantages of NGO status in Africa, why didn't they just say so, instead of using the library card excuse?

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