Dearest JamesThomas...

by AGuest 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    To dear

    No need to apologize, dear James, and you avatar is fine (actually, I can barely make it out, but "images" don't bother me, so...). I took no offense; I just didn’t understand why you weren't being totally honest. I always have a hard time when folks aren't. I can't read between the lines on my own and must rely on my Lord - usually, I am very surprised at what is revealed. I was in your case. Surprised, definitely. But certainly not upset.
    I was wrong in too strongly pressing my point of view with you

    But that's just it, dear James - I don't perceive that you strongly pressed any point, really, other than God (the Source) is unknowable. With which I vehemently disagree. You posed some questions… designed to get me to think about your point of view… but not designed to permit me to respond, not really. Well, not intended for me to respond, and certainly not expected. If that's a point of view... well, I got that...

    and belittling your deities.

    Have no fear; IF you belittled anything, you did so about what you do not know. Therefore, again, no offense taken; I forgive you (as I am sure my Lord has) for you did/do not know what you were doing.

    In the end it is not the form or formlessness we choose to adore, but rather our earnestness and sincerity, which you, dear , have in spades.

    I am not sure I can totally agree with,you here dear James, particular with regard to the "benefits" of earnestness and sincerity. Many religionists are earnest and sincere. Many who fight wars and kill innocents are earnest and sincere. All the earnestness and sincerity in the world may not be enough to justify such acts, however. But, yes, I know what you mean…

    Thank you dear, for helping me see that my room for learning has in no way come to an end.

    Has any of ours? I do not believe mine to be, not even close.

    I have a single teacher; a teacher with many faces. One of those faces is a beautiful lady who I used to sit with years ago in her home in . She is what some people call "enlightened", in that she is continually aware of the boundless reality of being. One day I went to her with something I discovered within meditation that I felt was important. Rather than applaud me as I expected, she pooh-poohed it as if it was nothing. I acted as if I was OK with it and left shortly after thinking she did not notice my anger and hurt. The next time I visited her, she immediately starting laughing saying "Boy were you pissed last time you left here!" So much for my clever cover-up.

    Now, I could say something trite like, "The truth hurts," or something like that. Instead, I will tell you that your lady was/is a brave woman, and perhaps "enlightened," for she spoke the truth to you, about what SHE saw although YOU believed it hidden. I have done the same thing: you did not intend or expect me to respond. That truth, and the fact that I said it, might be difficult for some here to receive. It does not seem to be so with you. Perhaps your prior experience helped in that.

    She went on to say how glad she was that I became angry because it meant we were reaching areas of great significance; and she ask me what it was I was protecting that caused offense. (I no-longer remember what it was).

    Funny, I would ask you the same thing. I did not become angry, but responded to your questions. Every one of them. I have asked the same of you; however, I have not been afforded the same consideration. Do I take offense? Nope. Do I belittle your current understanding? Nope. Why would I? Of what benefit would it be to me? To anyone here? None at all.

    It's very important, she explained, to honestly and tenaciously investigate into our bag of things that cause psychological defenses to erupt, for it is these cherished objects or fragments which we build our false identity around and so become a big part of what blinds consciousness to the never-ending wholeness and purity of being.

    And I agree with her. I do not think we can ever realize, reach our never-ending wholeness and PURITY of being, if we DON'T honestly and tenaciously review our "baggage." Unfortunately, some of us only want to look into the "make-up" bag; bringing ourselves to open that "undergarment" bag, however, is an entirely different thing. I had to learn this early on, dear one. My Lord taught me that before I could EVER look at anyone else, anything else, and into anyone or anything else, I had to look at… and into… myself. And certainly, if I wanted to peer into that which is purist in the non-physical universe, I had to peer into that which is purist in me. To do so, I had to learn to look at EVERYTHING… in order to look BEYOND everything. I have done that… and I continue to do that. And I look at… and see… it all: good, bad or indifferent.

    I would state this a little differently: when the Truth discovers US… because we are no longer "hidden," by means of having revealed our TRUE selves to HIM… the good, the bad… the indifferent… then we become included IN HIM… and not only huge… vast… but boundless.

    It's amazing the little things and beliefs we horde and cherish. Even things we feel are very good.

    What we "feel" is "good," is an entirely different matter, dear James, and way too involved to get into here - LOLOLOLOL!

    Yet, it is surrender of what is personal and special that opens our eyes to what is without end.

    YES!! But… we are not yet in agreement regarding "surrender" to what. Or, rather, WHOM.

    Few are willing to let go of what can be held on to.

    I agree. Starting with the flesh… and all that is physical. That is the HARDEST. Why? Because we are PHYSICAL and so to let go, not only of beliefs and paradigms… but that which limits us and which we are limited to by means of our sensual being… is extremely difficult.

    I give you an example: you love your horses, yes? Brushing and grooming them, etc. They are beautiful creatures! But while you love what you see, the beauty of a simple being such as a horse, I have learned to love what is INSIDE that what you see, that which cannot be seen with the physical eye - it's SPIRIT! I am not bounded by the fact that it has a coat, hooves, a body, etc., all of which will, at some point, return to the dust. I am not concerned that it needs to be fed, watered, sheltered, etc. I ask you, who feeds those horses that run free on the plains as they have since the founding of the world? S peak to me of what is WITHIN that vessel… the life that has no limit. Can it be defined? Indeed, it can. In fact, i t has a name, as does every living breathing thing. Do we know it? Not necessarily. Sure, w e know "Old Ben," or whatever moniker we have given that creature. But do we know its TRUE name? How can we unless we know the TRUE being? Can we? Yes, we can, if we do not allow our flesh to limit us. The worm dying on the path after a spring rain… was a life, dear James. With a name. I may not know it, you may not know it. But my Father knows it. And unlike us, they… know Him.

    I have had much troubles with it as well. One of the things which I find offensive is when people seem to reduce the Divine down to a thing or personal deity which steals it away from all but some "deserving" ones.

    I, too, am offended by such. Not by the fact that my Father IS a person, but that there are some who believe there are those who are "deserving." NONE, there are, dear James, who are deserving, save One. That's why it is called "mercy,"… or UN-deserved kindness. Anyone who tells you that they… or any others… are "deserving," are liars. And God shows mercy… to whomever He wishes to show mercy… from among the righteous… and the unrighteous.

    It's time I got over it, and allowed the universe of diverse peoples to be .

    And one of the features of my particularly "diversity" is that I can sing the praises of my Lord and my God, indeed, I am FREE to… without anyone else telling me that I can't... or shouldn't. And yet, I am not compelled to do so, but do it because I love the Ones I sing about! And I love them, because I KNOW them. Who are we to deny each other such JOY?

    For in truth, none of us are separate or alienated from the boundless Source of all things.

    Well, that is, unless we CHOOSE to be. The Source (JAH) does not leave or separate from us, dear one; we leave and separate from Him. Indeed, every time we "hate" our brother… our neighbor… our enemy… we move further and further away.

    Except, for maybe, Unclebruce.

    Okay, now you're talkin'!

    May the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the Most Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, whose name is JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, my Lord, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, be upon you… you and your entire household… if you so wish it!

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    Terry: At any rate, people whose god is so small (or their sense of that god) he can be injured by opinion is small indeed.

    Aaaaaaa-MEN!

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    I, too, am offended by such. Not by the fact that my Father IS a person, but that there are some who believe there are those who are "deserving." NONE, there are, dear James, who are deserving, save One. That's why it is called "mercy,"… or UN-deserved kindness. Anyone who tells you that they… or any others… are "deserving," are liars. And God shows mercy… to whomever He wishes to show mercy… from among the righteous… and the unrighteous.

    As much as I would hate to be the child of the person who wrote this, I am thrilled to be a child of God. In my opinion, God is all about grace, which is something rarely in evidence among those who purport to represent his interests. In terms of grace, deservedness or it lack becomes a non-issue. In my opinion, someone who truly comprehends grace is beyond the need to discuss deservedness.

    So, in my opinion, anyone who feels a need to discuss deservedness is clinging to something other than grace.

    James Thomas speaks of appreciating and delighting in what is. Don't you believe that what is, exists by grace, AGuest? What do you recommend beyond a deep appreciation for grace? For what should I strive beyond that, in your estimation? Or do you lack the capacity to recognize when someone (like James Thomas) puts in spiritual terms that which you accepted only in physical terms? (1 Corinthians 2)

    In your opinion, does your God call those righteous who try to cajole others into their perspective of acceptable service to God? Or, in your opinion, is righteousness dependent on something else entirely?

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • Confession
    Confession
    James Thomas quoted his friend and teacher... "When the truth is discovered, it is so all inclusive and huge, she said, that there is nothing left to protect or to cause psychological offence."

    I very much identify with this statement. Not to say that I've yet discovered "truth" on such a level, but the point made is, I believe, correct. Interestingly, in meditating on this, it's only now that I have realized an important part of my psyche.

    Without ever verbalizing this to another, I've always regarded myself as a "Truth Seeker." The idea of saying or doing things I don't believe just to satisfy others is pathetic to me. In the eighteen months it has taken me to free myself from the mind coma common to Watchtower adherents, I have noticed myself becoming more and more at peace. I don't seem to care when, for instance, a person shares that someone else has spoken poorly of me. I tell them it's okay. He/she probably didn't really mean it, and if they did, who knows? Maybe they're right. I've always leaned in this direction, but right now I feel extraordinary peace with who I am.

    Here's the main point (and perhaps one to which some of you can relate.) I now realize--not only that I allowed the WTS to manipulate me into believing in things that weren't true--but that this manipulation (by people who claim to have "the Truth") had the effect of stifling the part of me that is in fact a truth seeker. My self-esteem was threatened because, in my heart, I am most at peace when I am speaking and living truth. But my life was full of things that (again I only recognize now) I did not truly believe. Oh I thought I did. I told myself and everyone else I did. But there was always that little voice... In squelching that voice I think I was squelching my own character. Squelching myself.

    This revelation, which has come while reading through this very thread, is filling me with both tranquility and confidence. In leaving behind the Watchtower (along with considerable family and friends) I have lost a lot. But I have gained myself. And the future never seemed so full of potential.

  • trevor
    trevor

    Confession

    You make some good points.

    It is always good to hear that another person has broken free of the grip of the Watchtower Society, to start enjoying the freedom to explore deeper things without the hindrance of dogma and creed.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    May you have peace!

    You state:

    As much as I would hate to be the child of the person who wrote this

    My apologies if I... ummmmm... "disgusted" you to such a degree, but I think you misunderstood my statement. Not to worry; that often happens when one is reading another's written thoughts. Because emphasis is often misplaced by the reader, the true meaning is often obscured. I believe I would do you an injustice if I were to let you continue believing that what you think I said is what I said... for it is not.

    I am thrilled to be a child of God.

    I, too, am thrilled. May I ask you (and please know that I mean no offense, but am asking a true and sincere question): How do you KNOW you are a child of God? Which "god" in particular are you speaking of? Who is the "god" of which you speak and how do you know you are his/her/its child?

    In my opinion, God is all about grace,

    Grace (mercy), yes. But even more than that... love... and truth. Grace (mercy)... is a product of love... and love is a product of truth. So many overlook those facts. I am not sure why.

    which is something rarely in evidence among those who purport to represent his interests.

    Sigh! This comment concerns me, in that "we" always think "we" know what things such as "grace" are. Unfortunately, we have our own definitions, which do not always comport with God's. We think we love... and yet, I have come to know that most of us don't have a clue as to what love really is. We think we have faith... and yet, again, I have to know that most of us don't have a clue as to what faith really is. We think God is merciful, and yet, we don't truly understand that mercy is... upon whom it is bestowed... and why. We continually lean upon our own understanding, trust in our own interpretations. And so many of us, like the Pharisees, when someone comes along as says, "I have found him!" we begin to scrutinize and judge and say either one of two things: "No, you didn't, because He doesn't exist," or "No, you didn't... because I haven't.. and surely, if He was to be found, I would have found Him... and because I haven't, you certainly haven't... because you're not better than me."

    Although they repeatedly state otherwise, such ones are not truly concerned with the truth; rather, they are only concerned with what exists within the limitations of their own minds, hearts and perception. It saddens me.

    In terms of grace, deservedness or it lack becomes a non-issue. In my opinion, someone who truly comprehends grace is beyond the need to discuss deservedness.

    Because it is a subject with which you are perhaps... ummm... uncomfortable, possibly unknowledgeable... then that opinion works for you. For me, I have nothing to hide, and have come to know that there is nothing "unspeakable," or too "holy" to mention. The only things that are unspeakable, unmentionable… is that which is "unclean," and no, I don't mean profanity. I mean that which defames, belittles, humiliates, demeans, slanders, depreciates, kills (technically and or literally), demoralizes, and sullies another… deceitfully, maliciously, hatefully, unlovingly. THOSE things are what should be beyond the need to discuss. However, that which is BEAUTIFUL… and God's mercy is indeed beautiful… should not only be discussed… it should be HERALDED! How then will those who do not know about it come to know?

    So, in my opinion, anyone who feels a need to discuss deservedness is clinging to something other than grace.

    And here is where I believe you rmisead my words... and my position. Dear James brought up the subject of "deservedness," and I agreed with him that those who tout that they are "deserving," or that some particular group is… are liars. No one is deserving, which is why there is MERCY. Please, if you will, read again what I stated:

    I, too, am offended by such . Not by the fact that my Father IS a person, but that there are some who believe there are those who are "deserving." NONE, there are, dear James, who are deserving, save One. That's why it is called "mercy,"… or UN -deserved kindness. Anyone who tells you that they… or any others… are "deserving," are liars. And God shows mercy… to whomever He wishes to show mercy… from among the righteous… and the unrighteous.

    James Thomas speaks of appreciating and delighting in what is.

    I don't think that was quite it, dear one. James speaks of what he knows… which is limited to this world. "Being" in this world. And there's no problem with that. I did not dispute his position, which works for him. He questioned me, however, with regard to t hat which is of the other world, the spirit realm, to which I responded. James, however, finds himself at a loss for words when it comes to that realm. That is not the case with me, however: I speak of appreciating and delighting in what is in this world… and that one! Where is the crime there?

    Don't you believe that what is, exists by grace, AGuest?

    Absolutely, I do! Where did you get that I did not? I do not believe, however, that what is is limited to this physical realm OR that what is beyond this realm is unspeakable, unmentionable, unknowable. I believe that THAT belief… is what limits us.

    What do you recommend beyond a deep appreciation for grace?

    A love. Of the Truth.

    For what should I strive beyond that, in your estimation?

    For that which God has exhorted us to strive for from the beginning: love for and knowledge of the Truth. For it is only through that One that you can TRULY be set free and be ABLE to know that which is, for us, unknowable… and speak that which is, for us… unspeakable.

    Or do you lack the capacity to recognize when someone (like James Thomas) puts in spiritual terms that which you accepted only in physical terms? (1 Corinthians 2)

    I must disagree with you, dear AuldSould. Dear James did not put in "spiritual" terms that which I only accept in physical terms. Indeed, d ear James asserts that that which is spiritual cannot be put into terms. But I am not so limited: I know what I put my faith in, or rather whom, and I can express that because He has given me the words to do so! He has GIVEN names and identities and such, so that I can express the very things that dear James denies can be expressed - that which is spiritual! And expression was the very purpose for which it was given me!

    In your opinion, does your God call those righteous who try to cajole others into their perspective of acceptable service to God?

    bsolutely not (and I want to say that I cannot fathom how you have gotten that out of this or anything else I've ever posted here but, unfortunately, I think I can guess…)

    Or, in your opinion, is righteousness dependent on something else entirely?

    ighteousness… is dependent upon God... and is attributed to us by Him, through Christ. We cannot attribute it to ourselves. It is not something we can cultivate, create. It is a designation, not a characteristic. ALL of us are sinners; ALL of us have sinned, at one point or another. But that does not matter. I give you the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector: the Pharisee kept, for the most part, all of the Law. The Tax Collector, however, most probably extorted money from his own brothers. Yet, the Pharisee, lifting his eyes toward heaven, prayed, "Thank you, God, that I am not like OTHER people; I do this righteous act, and keep that Law and give this required gift." The Tax Collector, however, wouldn't even lift his eyes, but bowing head prayed, "Have mercy on me, God, for I am a sinner." My Lord asked, which man is more righteous? The Tax Collector, of course. Why? Be he KNEW what he was. "Unrighteous" though he may have been with regard to the Law, did not try to "fool" God into thinking he was something other than what he was. Thus, it was God, through Christ, who determined this "unrighteous" man as righteous, and the man who was "self" righteous" as maybe not so much.

    I don't come here because I believe myself to be righteous, dear AuldSoul, or better than anyone else. I come, and post what I do… because I am a "lesser" one… a SERVANT… doing what my lord and master sends me to do… to HIS household… for whom I am also a servant. I do not do it because I wish some "glory;" indeed, read the responses: where is the glory? Indeed, there is anger, chagrin, ridicule, even malice. What, you think I like being "heckled"? I don't. I am as human as you and I don't like it. BUT… I have no choice. No, not because God (or Christ) MAKE me come… but because I was shown MERCY! Although a sinner, someone came to me and said, "I will set you free!" and did so. How can I EVER repay him? I cannot. BUT… I can tell others of the wonderful freedom and have and who it was that gave it to me.

    What has occurred as a result, however, is that every time I do, every time I stand up and say, "Look, here! I have found Him!" and share with others what he has shared with me… I receive MORE. Much more! Most of which I have posted here at some point or another. Why? Love. Love for him for what he has done for ME… and love for YOU in that I would think that you would want such freedom, too! If you don't, that's fine - that's absolutely your choice - I do not judge you. But you will NOT be able to say, "Why didn't you tell me? If you knew, why didn't you tell me, if you love me so much?" I am telling you… and everyone here. Whether you hear… or refrain. I am nothing more than a messenger, a good-for-nothing servant. I do NOT ridicule, demean, malign, or slander those who do not receive what I share. What would be the benefit to me in doing so?

    I bid you peace!

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • Mystery
    Mystery

    Thank you Kid-A I am about to till my garden I can use it.

  • Mystery
    Mystery

    Oh I almost forgot, will i have it by Wednesday? That will be a great birthday present.

    Thank you for the ballons and party hat, I missed out on a lot of birthday parties - so that was an added surprise.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Dearest Shelby,

    The questions privately sent you were not ask in an atmosphere of dishonesty and deceit as you keep purposing. Yet, I understand why you would think so.

    The questions were designed to allow the mind to see it's limits and so stop and shut the hell up; because the questions point to what is infinitely too big for the mind to grasp. They were pointing to the endlessly vast pristine stillness that all words, thoughts and phenomena dance within. They were pointing to the Reality just beneath the counterfeit of the minds fragmented characterizations and drama of things.

    It's kind of a zen thing; the best answer to such questions is no answer at all; rather than prattling on forever.

    j

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho

    Chuckling, man this is almost as good as the dialog on "Seinfeld."

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