Well done facts, I think you were very brave to attend that meeting, I doubt I would have done it. They will still df you I suppose, but you definitely left a lasting impression on them.
My D/f appeal meeting went amazingly, but the still want to d/f me
***They said it was unacceptable to have it taped and if I turned it on they would leave the room. I replied that it makes me very concerned about how they have refused to put anything in writing, refused a tape recorder, refused me to have an observer present, yet have 6 witnesses against me. That behavior seriously brings into question the honesty and intentions of those present, and is considered illegal and unethical by most people and corporations as it lacks transparency.
Just about everyone would agree (Law Enforcement for example) that recording any important proceedings would be for the benefit of ALL concerned. It would be along the lines of using a contract in any business dealings, with all parties signing it. The fact that the WTS is notoriously adamant in NOT recording---also brings thoughts of dishonesty and deviousness to mind.
***I asked them to explain why brothers who are fornicating are made elders if holy spirit directs appointments, as stated in the Watchtower. They kept skirting the issue, but I would not let them move on. One brother said Jehovah takes time to disfellowship, which I said was not the question, it was why are they appointed whilst committing gross sin.
There is more and more evidence coming forward to show that the Holy Spirit is no more "present" with the WTS (when directing appointments or in any other capacity) and for them to even attempt to say that it IS, is ludicrous. Too many "dirty" elders appointed WHILE dirty to say otherwise. I guess the Holy Spirit is blind and cannot see what's going on in real time. Pity.
***Another brother then went on to explain that the holy spirit no longer acts in the same way as in Christian times. Which again I explained is wrong, as holy spirit acted visibly during the entire bible times, and so should still today, otherwise how are we any different than any other organisation.
THIS is one for the "I can't believe they SAID that" file. WHERE is the proof of THIS nonsense? UNBELIEVABLE!!
I am proud of you, and thrilled that you didn't "shrink back" and used the derogatory (BUT TRUTHFUL) term CULT as applied to them, their way of operating and their tactics! BRAVO!!!
It sounds like you made the best of a very bad situation. Like someone else said, 'they'll remember this meeting the rest of their lives.'
Good for you! So, the Chairman 'couldn't listen anymore' and walked out, eh ? ROFLOL (you hit a nerve!)
When you caught them in their lie about another appeal, what was their response ? Geez, everyone in that room knew the Head Judge was lying thru his teeth ! That'll leave a mark ! I'd love to have seen their faces when you pulled out their not-so-secret 'Secret Elders Manual'.
And your last words...looking at that young elder -- priceless ! When my time comes...and it might be soon, I will repeat those words:
...the third brother is about 35 with a wife. He sat for the entire time leaning forward on the edge of his seat with his eyes popping out of his head. He told me last week that this case was having an extremely difficult affect on him. I will be interested to see how his faith is affected in the long term as my last words to him were, ‘How many families do you plan to destroy during your time as an elder?’
Priceless ! Thank you !
Damn good job. There are times when I feel that I should have attended my JC meeting, but I did not want to give them a feeling of authority over me by playing by their rules. Some people should do what you did if it helps give closure.
Regarding them showing you the evidence of your participation here and from your website, I've said it many times before -- The WTS WILL USE WHATEVER YOU SAY ON THIS BOARD AGAINST YOU IF THEY ARE DETERMINED TO GET YOU DF'D. It happened to me and is the reason why I left this nick a couple of years ago. I was shown printouts of my participation from this board and other things.
Once they know who you are, they will use any and all documentation available to nail you with your own words. You can TAKE THAT TO THE BANK! GUARANTEED.
Sounds to me as though you handled yourself in a most dignified manner and made the best of a bad situation.
I am delighted you enjoyed yourself at the time. As for the outcome. You could expect no more. I am sure that meeting will
stay with them, just as long as it does you.
jwfacts....you stood up, for everyone. Some may not have attended, some would, but you have shown all your fans one way of dealing with this situation, which helps us all to be prepared.
They had to stick to the WTS rules... they think that if you could get a law suit up, that by doing that the WTS would then back them, would they? They have ducked and dodged other law suits in the U.S. and they would do the same here. These guys would be sitting targets.
Thanks for all your hard work. Wonder if Yana Vendt would be interested?
Glad you feel good about the meeting. i guess that really is the main thing.
you previously said that the chairman of the judicial committee was the one who started you on your path of discovery. did you explain that, and thank him :)
you also said that they would not answer your questions as they said they were here to judge you, not answer questions. it sounds like at the meeting yesterday they just laughed everything off !?!
so now you have to gather your defenses for the next round:-
the personal response to loved ones when your d'f'ing is announced. hope it goes well for you.
p.s. did you crack open the fifth leg last night ;)
Thank you everyone for the kind comments.
Johnny Chip was right about how it is easy to have the upper hand. We know exactly what they will say, and what their responses will be to every question, they can only parrot back the Watchtower guidelines and doctrines. But they have no idea what direction we will take. I stayed away from mentioning doctrine to prove them wrong, as most experience elders know it already and have their set excuses. That is why i pushed the proof of Holy Spirit and the indicators of a cult. There is no proper answer to that, just weak excuses that they can make. If anyone is facing a committee i can send relevant piece of the elders manual, as it helps understand how the meeting will be handled.
Skally, what you say is very true. I think for most people the best thing to do is refuse to go to the meeting altogether. There is often more chance they will leave you alone anyway, and at least you take their power away from them. In my case I knew I could not avoid the accusation, so wanted to see if legal threats, logic or anything else can make a difference.
They then requested I seriously reconsider any such action for the hurt it will cause my family (what a joke, it is their action that will be affecting my family).
JWfacts - Congratualtions on a job well done, you must be feeling vey happy with yourself. I couldn't do, but I'm glad you were able to and fill us in on all the details. Sounds like you kknow your stuff and could string together a very clear and logical argument. Interesting that it's OK for elders to visit apostate sites ...
Telling them they're a cult - priceless! I loved the response to your threat to sue you 'but we have no money' - well dah! window washers are hardly going to make the rich list!