hi, can u guys answer this for me?? (page 2)

skyman

*** w92 12/15 p. 12 Jehovah, the Doer of Wondrous Things ***

16

After our first parents had disobeyed God, triggering the distresses that plague the earth to this day, Jehovah out of his love performed a wondrous work in sending his Son to earth to proclaim God’s Kingdom and to die as a ransom for mankind. And wonder of wonders! Jehovah then resurrected Christ to become his associate King-elect. (Matthew 20:28; Acts 2:32, 34) From loyal humans God has also chosen "a new creation" that will rule with Christ as a benevolent "new heaven" over "a new earth" society that will include billions of resurrected humans. (2 Corinthians 5:17; Revelation 21:1, 5-7; 1 Corinthians 15:22-26) Jehovah’s works will thus move on to a glorious climax! Truly, we can exclaim: "O Jehovah, . . . how abundant your goodness is, which you have treasured up for those fearing you

skyman

*** it-1 p. 81 Alpha and Omega ***

The final occurrence of the title is at Revelation 22:13, which states: "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." It is evident that a number of persons are represented as speaking in this chapter of Revelation; verses 8 and 9 show that the angel spoke to John, verse 16 obviously applies to Jesus, the first part of verse 17 is credited to "the spirit and the bride," and the one speaking in the latter part of verse 20 is manifestly John himself. "The Alpha and the Omega" of verses 12-15, therefore, may properly be identified as the same one who bears the title in the other two occurrences: Jehovah God. The expression, "Look! I am coming quickly," in verse 12, does not require that these aforementioned verses apply to Jesus, inasmuch as God also speaks of himself as "coming" to execute judgment.

jwfacts

The WTS claims all three refer to the Father who they call Jehovah. Below is the reasoning used from the Reasoning book. It takes quite a bit of theological gymnastics to make Rev 22:12,13 refer to Jehovah, but a JW will do anything to support a preconceived doctrine, rather than let the bible speak for itself. Good luck trying to convert a JW on the Trinity, it is almost impossible while they believe in the Watchtower Society.

***

rs p. 412 par. 3 Trinity ***

Alpha

and Omega: To whom does this title properly belong? (1) At Revelation 1:8, its owner is said to be God, the Almighty. In verse 11 according to KJ, that title is applied to one whose description thereafter shows him to be Jesus Christ. But scholars recognize the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 11 to be spurious, and so it does not appear in RS, NE, JB, NAB, Dy. (2) Many translations of Revelation into Hebrew recognize that the one described in verse 8 is Jehovah, and so they restore the personal name of God there. See NW, 1984 Reference edition. (3) Revelation 21:6, 7 indicates that Christians who are spiritual conquerors are to be ‘sons’ of the one known as the Alpha and the Omega. That is never said of the relationship of spirit-anointed Christians to Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke of them as his ‘brothers.’ (Heb. 2:11; Matt. 12:50; 25:40) But those ‘brothers’ of Jesus are referred to as "sons of God." (Gal. 3:26; 4:6) (4) At Revelation 22:12, TEV inserts the name Jesus, so the reference to Alpha and Omega in verse 13 is made to appear to apply to him. But the name Jesus does not appear there in Greek, and other translations do not include it. (5) At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be "the first and the last," which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression "apostle" is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1) So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title "Alpha and Omega" applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.

skyman

To any person that has his mind open clearly see that all three scriptures refer to Jesus. If you notice the WJ leader give them selves an out at Rev :22 12-13 and say

may properly

they don;t really say it was Jehovah but maybe. This gets them off the hook

skyman

Get a red letter bible and look the scriptures and you see that the JW have a problem referring the three to Jehovah. A red letter show it to be Jeusus. Me being an ex DUB thinks that the scriptures referr to Jehovah but my research I just did make me question that. If I would of called on your door as a JW there would have been no way I would admit this to you.

apologetics

hey skyman , thanks for info,

nice points made, but you seemed to have missed my question, in the various scripture that I have given, jehovah has been accredited to alpha omega , beginning and end, Rev 1:17-18 has Jesus himself say that he is the alpha omega begginning and end.

17: When I saw him I fell at his feet as though dead, Then he placed his right hand on me and said, "Do not be afraid, I am the first and the list (alpha omega) 18 I am the living one; I was dead and behold I am alive for ever and ever!! And I hold the keys of death and hades,

If this is not the case and first and last (being a title of God) is not valid then tell me then when did jehovah die? for the title claimed was that of God.....and as the latter part of that scripture indicates" I am the living one; I was dead and behold i am alive for ever and ever,.....

just before that is refuted..... let me just say The bible is the authority on all things,

2 tim 3:16 "all scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching rebuking, correcting and training in rightousness,"

2 sam 22:31 " The word of the lord is flawless"
also

proverbs 30:5 "everyword of God is flawless"

also

psalms 18:30 "the word of the lord is flawless"

keeping that in mind,I would like to hear your answer in DIRECT context to the scripture given.

apologetics

ok sky :P

for some reason im preaching to the converted........

are you all ex dubs???

:P dan

stillAwitness

Oh Enigma. Always the jokester aren't we.

Gretchen956

are you all ex dubs???

Most of us are ex dubs, a few are active. Not all of us are christian.

Welcome!

Sherry

FairMind

I'm a JW and I am also a Christian. You can be both you know! I don't believe in the Trinity but I do believe that Jesus is God's only begotten son who died for me as well as any other who accepts him as the promised messiah and puts faith in his ransom sacrifice. Unlike many JW's I fortunately don't believe that salvation comes through any particular religious organization. Many JWs are not Christian but you can say the same for Baptists, Catholics, etc.

hi, can u guys answer this for me??

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