Today at the KH, Hopefully opens my wifes' eyes

by DaCheech 66 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  PoppyR

  Thank you Odrade!! Couldn't have put it better myself.. the fact is yes the noise might be irritating, but lets face it... what is the alternative?? if we truly have love amongst ourselves dont we try and put up with one another in love? My children were some of the best behaved in the KH, but I was never credited with that, only picked on if they dared to snuffle, yet counselled if we did not attend. I dont know peoples personal situations, but I do know many night time meetings I had struggled all day with these babies, and the last thing I needed was somebody elses dissaproval. I really dont feel Jesus would have asked someone to take a snoring infant from a meeting.. do you? And there are WAYS of speaking to someone without offense, my husband when attending would often go up to a noisy situation and ask if he could help.... how much more loving, you are pointing out to the parent that there might be a problem, but also that you are willing to give them support. I see both sides of the issue, but I think the one here is the person was obviously spoken to in such a way they felt offended. And I've BEEN there!!! Also..as has been said, what were they to do? Wake the child? Take him out, which would probably wake him, or could those around him maybe just get over themselves!

  poppy
• 

  Confession

  Anyone who tells a parent to remove their sleeping infant from the room for snoring, (or even just make them stop,) is pretty much just an unsympathetic, inconsiderate bastard. What do they want the parent to do? Wake the sleeping infant, so they can then browbeat the parent when the child makes a sucking noise when having a bottle, or coos when it sees a pretty light?

  This is an emotional issue for you. You call people horrible names, but seem unwilling to accept that others disagree with you and that they have a right to their opinions too. Some would call you names equally as scathing for your angry insistence that only your perspective can be the correct one.
• 

  Odrade

  You do realize we are discussing an INFANT here... just how loud do you think an infant can snore? And do you really think it's appropriate for someone to tell a parent to do something about their snoring infant? Damn straight I will call someone an unfeeling bastard if they think it is okay to counsel a parent because their sleeping INFANT is making noises.
  Maybe YOU are defensive about it because you are intolerant of a sleeping INFANT's noises...
• 

  Confession

  Poppy,

  Glad to read your comments. Again, I don't know what happened in this situation. The original poster did not say that the brother told him to take the child out. He claimed that the brother "made a stink." Again, if he did something unkind, then I can understand the irritation. I know that some people will call it a "stink" for the simple reason that they were approached--no matter how nicely. The gentleman also said it was he who asked his wife to remove the child...

  I angrily went up to my wife, and said "go to the side room, the brothers don't want your kid because he's snoaring".

  I could be wrong, but such a statement seemed pretty knee-jerk and immature to me.

  But in seeing these situations unfold as I often did, I found that some parents would become very annoyed no matter how kindly they were spoken to. The very idea that someone would speak to them about their children being a disturbance was met with indignation. And the recommended method for all attendants was to do just what you said: Ask if there was anything you could do to help. Most parents were fine with this. For some, again, the way they were asked mattered little.

  When my daughter was very young and she began making noises that were both very loud and constant, I did something about it. It didn't usually take much. If she was sleeping, a minor redistribution of her position usually did the trick. Did this mean she might wake up? Yep. Did that mean she might start crying? Sometimes. Would I take her back if the crying didn't stop? Yes I would. Did that suck? Uh huh. But I did it because I knew others would be distracted by it. And I didn't take it personally; all kids make noises that are distracting sometimes.

  If someone wants to believe that every time an attendant approaches a parent about a loud child they are being nasty, fine. But, as you indicated, often that is not the case at all. And it does matter how a person is approached, despite Odrade's position that any such approach is only the work of a "crotchety," "unsympathetic, inconsiderate bastard."
• 

  TooOpinionated

  This is an emotional issue for you.

  These were the exact words used on me by an elder in a condecending tone when I questioned him about the 2 witness rule with child molestation. Trying to put it all back on me just made me furious. As a mother who had 3 tiny children at the hall (usually single-handed), there were plenty of times that a sleeping infant in my arms snored. EVERYONE would smile, even the permanently bitter sisters. It is such a non-issue for someone to get upset at the hall about. A grown man snoring is a different story.

  The last time I went, a had a 4 yr. old, a 3yr.old, and a year old that was just beginning to walk. She wanted to keep getting away from me, the 3 year old wanted to fall asleep on me but couldn't because I had to hold back the one yr old, and the 4 yr old boy was getting restless. After the meeting the PO was telling me that when he and his wife were raising their 3 kids, they would trade off taking them to the back, etc. THEN asked me if I could do the same. My jaw just dropped. He then asked me if I could prepare better. Heck, I couldn't even pick up a book and follow along because of the kids. I was seeing red by now and I asked him (in front of a few MS's) how many of me did he see? Who was I supposed to trade off with? What was the point of such a question? He looked embarrassed and admitted it would be hard for me. I then boldly stated that after being away for some time because of child abuse in the congregation, I made a real effort to come back with 3 tiny children, but apparently it just wasn't good enough. My efforts are not appreciated, and you are trying to make me feel guilty for having kids. (There were quite a few noses that went into the air when we had our 3 one. No reason since we could afford all of our kids.)

  A huge problem for me at the hall was the elder's inablility to see they were comparing apples to oranges, and measuring everything by the same yardstick.
• 

  PoppyR

  Ok Confession, you've got me on that one, yes I realise some will take offense at whatever is being said, it's a touchy issue, and I do know (from being married to someone that had to do the horrible job) that not all the brothers are as reasonable as you. But I also know.. from the other side of the situation, many brothers are very unfeeling in the way they handle things. It just struck me this particular brother was obviously made to feel really upset by what had been said, which also pointed out to me it might not have been handled very well. And also I do agree with Outrade, an infant snoring is hardly likely to be so loud that they brothers cant hear..

  Two issues here I feel, the one that the meetings and the KH were dry, crusty and not really child friendly. I have always felt that, and am just glad I dont have to go anymore! And reading some of the examples here about church and how welcome they make the kids makes me feel sad for myself as a child, and my own children. Secondly, sometimes a disturbance needs to be handled (sometimes!) but it can usually be done in love, and a LOT of brothers dont deal with it very well

  Poppy xxx
• 

  Confession

  Too,

  That's a tough one. Three kids and only you... I remember seeing this type of thing a lot. Usually other sisters in the Hall would offer their help, but sometimes they wouldn't. I remember asking my wife about this. It seemed that when a sister was consistently not offered help--it was because the usual helpers had a personal problem with her. I remember asking my wife if she'd help one sister. Her child was not necessarily being distracting, but you could tell that she had her hands full and was completely exhausted. My wife said she couldn't right then. Then I asked her if she thought the sister would let me take her baby for awhile. She told me defnitely not to ask.

  Being in the situation you were, anyone would be emotional.
• 

  Odrade

  See what loving individuals this organization turns people into, when even the normal, natural noises of a sleeping infant are something to counsel about as if it is somehow a problem? and those of us who see this as normal and natural are the ones with a problem if we object to a parent being told to force a sleeping child to be quiet?
• 

  Confession

  Two issues here I feel, the one that the meetings and the KH were dry, crusty and not really child friendly. I have always felt that, and am just glad I dont have to go anymore!

  Oh, man, am I with you on that! We often had parts about how at the Kingdom Hall we didn't "banish our little ones off to a Sunday school." Wouldn't that be a better scenario all around? Wouldn't the child get much more out of it than having to sit for (what must seem like to them) ten hours of boring lectures?

  I recall one time, when my daughter was young, she slept through an entire meeting. I somehow felt guilty that she didn't take in any of the meeting. One brother later told me, "Are you kidding me? At her age, it's good that she did sleep so you and your wife could get the meeting yourselves!" I found that refreshing and decided he was right.

  Now, of course, I'm sorry I put my daughter through any of those meetings.
• 

  Odrade

  Incidently, the original INFANT in question was snoring SO LOUDLY, that this insensitive, browbeating clout of a brother had to ask 4 people if they heard something before he could identify the source of the thunderous disturbance and ask the parent to deal with the disruption.