i am new

by lunarlara 50 Replies latest jw experiences

  • bailabklyn

    Welcome Lunalara

    Don't let them guit you into doing anything (like continuing to study). As others advised: walk away.

  • bailabklyn


    guit = guilt

  • deeskis

    Hi and welcome

    i'm also new and wish this site was around when I faded over 20 years ago, I could have done with the support then. I have found out some very interesting information, and would encourage you to read lots of experiences that people have grown, learned and developed from.

    best wishes


  • gumby

    For Lunarlaura,

    4 March 2004

    To Whom It May Concern,

    Recently the NGO Section has been receiving numerous inquiries regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI). This organization applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities.

    In October 2001, the Main Representative of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York to the United Nations, Giro Aulicino, requested termination of its association with DPI. Following this request, the DPI made a decision to disassociate the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York as of 9 October 2001.

    Please be informed that it is the policy of the Department of Public Information of the United Nations to keep correspondence between the United Nations and NGOs associated with DPI confidential. However, please see below the paragraph included in all letters sent to NGOs approved for association in 1992:

    "The principal purpose of association of non-governmental organizations with the United Nations Department of Public Information is the redissemination of information in order to increase public understanding of the principles, activities and achievements of the United Nations and its Agencies. Consequently, it is important that you should keep us informed about your organization's information programme as it relates to the United Nations, including sending us issues of your relevant publications. We are enclosing a brochure on the "The United Nations and Non-Governmental Organizations", which will give you some information regarding the NGO relationship."

    In addition, the criteria for NGOs to become associated with DPI include the following:

    1. • that the NGO share the principles of the UN Charter;
    2. • operate solely on a not-for-profit basis;
    3. • have a demonstrated interest in United Nations issues and a proven ability to reach large or specialized audiences, such as educators, media representatives, policy makers and the business community;

    1. • have the commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes about UN activities by publishing newsletters, bulletins and pamphlets, organizing conferences, seminars and round tables; and enlisting the cooperation of the media.

    We expect that you will share this information with your concerned colleagues, as we are unable to address the scores of duplicate requests regarding the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society that are being directed to our offices. Thank you for your interest in the work of the United Nations.


    Paul Hoeffel


    NGO Section

    Department of Public Information

  • Legolas
  • Legolas

    I forgot to say ...Welcome to the board!!!!!!

  • ozziepost

    G'day from downunder and Welcome Aboard!

  • fullofdoubtnow

    Hi lunalara, and welcome to the forum.

    I am glad that you found out the truth about the jws before committing yourself, I only wish I had been so lucky. Don't worry about hurting the jws feelings, they would hurt yours without hesitation if you did join them and did something they don't approve of. If they shun you, so be it, you will have lost nothing, their "friendship" is conditional anyway. You will make far more meaningful and lasting friendships away for the jws, and by walking away now you will save yourself and your kids a lifetime of misery.


    Love, Linda

  • ffoeg


    When they come the next time tell them that you want to obey Jesus and that in order to to this you need to be baptised "In the name of the Father (Jehovah) and of the son (Jesus) and with holy spirit according to the command or law that Jesus gave.

    The Jehovah's Witness will want you to disobey that law by baptizing you in the name of the Father (Jehovah) and of the son (Jesus) and with "God's Spirit Directed Organization" (The Governing Body and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society).

    This cleary undermines and even defies Jesus Christs Law who Jehovah commanded that we should listen to and obey.

    They will then try and belittle your concern and try to make you belive it is no big deal.

    When they do this remind them about Eve defying God's Law about eating fruit from a tree and ask them which is the bigger deal.

    Ask them if the consequence of being deceived into disobeying Jehovah's commandment aboyut the tree of knowledge was death what is the consequence of openly defying Jesus Christ who has been given all authority in the Universe.

    If they still persist ask them to read the following scripture which the Apostle Peter wrote advising what do do in concern to people who openly defy the Law:

    2 Peter 3:17

    17 Y OU , therefore, beloved ones, having this advance knowledge, be on YOUR guard that YOU may not be led away with them by the error of the law-defying people and fall from YOUR own steadfastness.

    If they still seem confused ask them to read the following letter:

    A Letter to all Jehovah's Witnesses

    October 24th, 2005

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    The harvest is ripe. The hour has come. The day of Jehovah is now upon us.

    Malachi 3:1-3

    1 "For, look! the day is coming that is burning like the furnace, and all the presumptuous ones and all those doing wickedness must become as stubble. And the day that is coming will certainly devour them," Jehovah of armies has said, "so that it will not leave to them either root or bough. 2 And to YOU who are in fear of my name the sun of righteousness will certainly shine forth, with healing in its wings; and YOU will actually go forth and paw the ground like fattened calves." 3 "And YOU people will certainly tread down [the] wicked ones, for they will become as powder under the soles of YOUR feet in the day on which I am acting," Jehovah of armies has said.

    This day starts after the revealing of the "man of lawlessness", something I will do by the time this letter has been finished. You can be certain that others also have this advance knowledge. (2 Peter 3:17)

    The lawlessness was already at work in the first century and yet the effect of this lawlessness would become so thorough during the last days that it would gain entry right into the temple of The God. Such an overwhelming manifestation of lawlessness must not be able to continue escaping notice and yet the scriptures do indicate there is something acting as a restraint which will eventually be out of the way and make the revealing possible.

    I will tell you now that I have been to the place where the thing acting as a restraint gets to be out of the way. 2Th 2:7

    The place is in the wilderness, the thing acting as a restraint is the face of the serpent.

    Revelation 12:4

    14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given the woman, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place; there is where she is fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.

    Certainly the thing spoken of by the Apostle Paul is also the disgusting thing which stands in a holy place for which we are admonished by our Lord Jesus to continually watch for and to also use discernment. In order to walk by faith the discerning reader will have to carefully consider the things we are actually seeing and measure them against what we have read in the bible.

    Careful contemplation of the following should make this evident:

    2Thessalonians 2:4

    4 He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called "god" or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.

    How does someone gain access to the actual temple of The God and further yet, how is he able to lift himself up above everyone who is called god?

    It certainly is mysterious as to how this might be accomplished.

    2 Thessalonians 2

    7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work;

    The "man of lawlessness" is also called the "man of sin" in many bible translations.

    Through the scriptures Jesus showed us that we would eventually be helped with convincing evidence given to us regarding sin (lawlessness), righteousness (the truth) and also judgement.

    John 16:8-11

    8 And when that one arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: 9 in the first place, concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; 10 then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and YOU will behold me no longer; 11 then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

    A good thing to now understand is how someone is able to gain access to the temple of The God?

    The following scripture shows how this is possible:

    Hebrews 10:19-23

    19 Therefore, brothers, since we have boldness for the way of entry into the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 which he inaugurated for us as a new and living way through the curtain, that is, his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us approach with true hearts in the full assurance of faith, having had our hearts sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water. 23 Let us hold fast the public declaration of our hope without wavering, for he is faithful that promised.

    The requisite for entry into the actual temple of The God is baptism, a new and living way through the curtain.

    At the time our hearts are sprinkled from a wicked conscience and our bodies bathed with clean water our baptismal vows gain entry into the actual temple of The God.

    Through this means any person can rightfully enter into the actual temple of The God.

    Do you think Satan knows this?

    How can someone, a man, lift himself up over everyone who is called "god" through baptism?

    It would be a good idea to examine the command our Lord and King Jesus Christ gave us in regard to baptism in the following scripture:

    Matthew 28:18-20

    18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

    Please notice the necessary criteria which is listed in the following and compared where possible to 2nd Thessalonians 2:4

    Christian Baptism Criteria:

    name of the Father --- Jehovah --------------- The God --- ---(2 Co 1:3)
    And of the Son ------- Jesus ----------------------- a god ----- (John 1:1)
    And of Holy Spirit ---The Helper ----God's active force --- (Acts 2:38)

    The above requirement is therefore the only way of access into the temple of The God.

    Careful contemplation of the above should now make the discerning reader come to the very uncomfortable conclusion that it is only Jehovah’s Witnesses who can have access to the temple as it is only us who use God’s name, the name of the Father, Jehovah.

    Could it really be that a man of lawlessness exists inside of the organisation of Jehovah’s Witnesses?

    This concern certainly justifies the further examination of scripture and a good place to start with this would be to find any scripture that describes a "man" having access to the holy temple.

    Do the scriptures indicate in the singular any "man" who might exist inside of God’s people?


    There is an esoteric group called a "man" who is referred to in scripture as existing inside of God’s name people and who also has access to the temple of The God.

    Ephesian 2:13-18

    13 But now in union with Christ Jesus YOU who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. 14 For he is our peace, he who made the two parties one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. 15 By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, that he might create the two peoples in union with himself into one new man

    and make peace; 16 and that he might fully reconcile both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself. 17 And he came and declared the good news of peace to YOU, the ones far off, and peace to those near, 18 because through him we, both peoples,(the man) have the approach to the Father by one spirit. 19 Certainly, therefore, YOU (the man) are no longer strangers and alien residents, but YOU (the man) are fellow citizens of the holy ones and are members of the household of God, 20 and YOU (the man) have been built up upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone. 21 In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together, is growing into a holy temple for Jehovah. 22 In union with him YOU, too, (the man) are being built up together into a place for God to inhabit by spirit.

    The notes in parentheses and bolded are added for emphasis.

    The "man" is therefore that esoteric and anointed group who is growing towards being accepted as part of the temple for Jehovah.

    Inside the organisation of Jehovah’s Witnesses this "man" is better known as the Governing Body which represents the anointed slave class who are appointed to "feed the domestics" and direct the organisation through the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. The question is now once again at issue however, as to whether this is the faithful or perhaps really could still be the evil slave? A question that many believe was formally resolved in 1919.

    If God’s spirit directed organisation who governs all of Jehovah’s Witnesses is "the man of lawlessness" they must somehow have lifted themselves up above the station of a god (a small "g" god) our Lord Jesus Christ himself while also gaining access to the temple.

    A more careful examination of the baptismal vows made by Jehovah’s Witnesses should now be undertaken in order to examine the possibility that this might be a valid concern.

    The baptismal vows, which are necessary to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, are carefully explained in the June 1st 1985 Watchtower Magazine on page 30 as follows:

    "On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    The second is:

    Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?"

    These vows are publicly made often in front of thousands of people.

    Now the discerning reader should also attempt to reconcile the Jehovah's Witness baptismal criteria where possible to 2nd Thessalonians 2:4 and our Lord Jesus Christ’s commandment at Matthew 28:19.

    Jehovah's Witness Baptism Criteria:

    Jehovah to do his will ------------------ Name of the Father ----- The God
    Sacrifice of Jesus Christ --------------- And of the son ----------- a god
    God's spirit-directed organisation ---- (the man) ----------------- a god?

    Can you see in the above an esoteric group who is "publicly showing himself to be a god"?

    Jehovah's Witnesses are taught by this same organisation that the above vows are essential for salvation as confirmed in the following quote from the January 15th 1989 Watchtower magazine on page 15:

    "Baptismal candidates must acknowledge publicly that on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice they have repented of their sins and have dedicated themselves to Jehovah. They must also understand that dedication and baptism identify them as Jehovah's Witnesses."

    The entire baptismal arrangement, including this public expression of faith, is essential for salvation.

    In order to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses newly interested ones are compelled to publicly confirm the above vows which now gives them the ability to worship and rightfully participate in any other Jehovah’s Witness activity. Until the new one gets this unique baptismal mark they are considered as nothing.

    I hope the reader agrees that in order to be saved a person has to approach the alter in the temple of God in order to benefit from Jesus Christ's sacrifice. The individuals public expression must gain entry into the temple of The God. Their expression provides worship and reverence to all those mentioned in their vows including "God’s spirit directed organization".

    This is very much different to the baptismal arrangement identified and commanded by our Lord Jesus Christ (a god) who commanded that his arrangement should be in place right up to the very conclusion of the system of things.

    Anyone who has the courage to presumptuously change his arrangement prior to the conclusion of this system of things must therefore consider themselves to be a small "g" god of greater authority than our Lord and King Jesus Christ. They have lifted themselves up over everyone who is called "god". By changing this commandment before the conclusion of the system of things the Governing body and Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has indicated disagreement with and opposition to our King Jesus Christ. The Governing body have insisted that since 1919 they have already passed inspection, been declared righteous and appointed over all their belongings. Their intent has therefore been to change times and law. Immediately before making the baptismal commandment however, our Lord and King left no doubt as to his authority over these matters when he said:

    Matthew 28:17

    18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth

    Jesus Christ’s commandment above was a law in the first century and continues to be a law right up to the conclusion of this system of things. Anyone who disagrees with or opposes this law should therefore be considered lawless.

    There is now a man identified who is capable of entry into the temple itself who also manifests opposition to and lifts himself above the station of Jesus Christ our King. There is no other candidate for the man of lawlessness. The Governing body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the spirit directed organisation is the only "man" identified in the bible who is capable of entry into the temple.

    To trick newly interested ones into publicly confirming a vow, which venerates the evil slave, the man of lawlessness is indeed a very insidious and unrighteous deception.

    A careful examination of 2 Thessalonians explains that this man of lawlessness is to be; "done away with by the spirit of his mouth".

    It is in John Chapter 16 where we find out what the "spirit of his mouth" is:

    John 16

    However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. 14 That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU.

    The man of lawlessness is to be done away with simply by a revealing of the truth. Truths which, indirectly come from the very mouth of Jesus Christ, our true Lord and King.

    The thought that his faithful slave had passed inspection in 1919 was therefore another unrighteous deception and Jehovah’s people have been operating in error since then. Why would our God, Jehovah allow his witnesses to be governed by an evil slave for so long? The scripture at 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 explains the reason why and also who is really behind the deception:

    2nd Thessalonians 2

    9 But the lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

    2nd Thessalonians not only mentions a deception, it also mentions a lie.

    What is the lie?

    Here are some quotes from a July 1st 1983 Watchtower Article:

    "Millions Now Living will Never Die"

    "THERE are thousands of millions of persons living on earth today. Millions of these are now learning of the wonderful opportunity of keeping on living upon it without ever dying off it. "

    "Live Companions of Those Hidden From Divine Denunciation"

    "21 Unquestionably, so late in this "time of the end" since the end of the Gentile Times in 1914, there are many live men and women of faith and integrity who will never die off the face of the earth, God’s footstool."

    Please now consider the lie (falsehood) believed by the rulers of God’s people as described by a scripture in Isaiah:

    Isaiah 28

    14 Therefore hear the word of Jehovah, YOU braggarts, YOU rulers of this people who are in Jerusalem: 15 Because YOUmen have said: "We have concluded a covenant with Death; and with She´ol we have effected a vision; the overflowing flash flood, in case it should pass through, will not come to us, for we have made a lie our refuge and in falsehood we have concealed ourselves"; 16 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: "Here I am laying as a foundation in Zion a stone, a tried stone, the precious corner of a sure foundation. No one exercising faith will get panicky. 17 And I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the leveling instrument; and the hail must sweep away the refuge of a lie, and the waters themselves will flood out the very place of concealment. 18 And YOUR covenant with Death will certainly be dissolved, and that vision of YOURS with She´ol will not stand. The overflowing flash flood, when it passes through YOU must also become for it a trampling place.

    The lie is "the covenant with Death".

    The truth is that the ones who said that; "millions now living will never die" and also said; "the live companions of those hidden from denunciation" have told us a lie.

    Their covenant with death will be dissolved.

    Notice in the scripture above that a revealing of falsehood (lie) from a place of concealment would be as a result of righteousness (truth) and justice coming from a tried stone laid as a foundation in Zion. These must represent truths coming from our Lord and King Jesus Christ only after he is tried and resurrected. The waters that flood out the very place of concealment are truths coming from the spirit of his mouth. The discerning reader should realise this cannot have application to Isaiah’s contemporaries and has never had any application since our King Jesus Christ’s resurrection, until now.

    Please carefully examine again the scripture in 2 Thessalonians:

    2 Thessalonians 2:4

    4 He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called "god" or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.

    This now leaves Jehovah’s Witnesses in a spiritual paradox, which is further heightened by words from the prophet Micah:

    Micah 4:5
    5 For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god (small "g" god); but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever.

    We can be certain these vows designed to confirm our union with the man of lawlessness, the evil slave would be used as a weapon to justify continued loyalty. During the final part of the days it has often been said that we would face a test of our loyalties however, who could have foreseen that the test would seem so insidious and severe. This test however, is perfect, which gives glory to the one that inspired the scriptures and will set matters straight regarding many peoples in a just and righteous way. It is our true faith, which will be tested.

    Each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses is now faced with a decision.

    The sum of each individual decision should cause a large division.

    What we say and do and what we do not say will determine where we place our loyalties.

    We can be certain Jehovah will now be listening intently.

    Malachi 3:16-17

    16 At that time those in fear of Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance began to be written up before him for those in fear of Jehovah and for those thinking upon his name.
    17 "And they will certainly become mine," Jehovah of armies has said, "at the day when I am producing a special property. And I will show compassion upon them, just as a man shows compassion upon his son who is serving him. 18 And YOU people will again certainly see [the distinction] between a righteous one and a wicked one, between one serving God and one who has not served him."

    We will soon see the distinction between a righteous one and a wicked one.

    A person who continues to be loyal to an organization who opposes Jesus Christ’s law are also in servitude to those who refuse to acknowledge the supreme sovereignty of the true God Jehovah who appointed Jesus and commanded us to listen to him.

    Your decision will determine whether you support Satan and his wicked sons (the weeds) or Jesus and the sons of the living God (the wheat.)

    Matthew 10:32

    32 "Everyone, then, that confesses union with me before men, I will also confess union with him before my Father who is in the heavens; 33 but whoever disowns me before men, I will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens. 34 Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. 37 He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. 38 And whoever does not accept his torture stake and follow after me is not worthy of me. 39 He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it.
    40 "He that receives YOU receives me also, and he that receives me receives him also that sent me forth. 41 He that receives a prophet because he is a prophet will get a prophet’s reward, and he that receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will get a righteous man’s reward. 42 And whoever gives one of these little ones only a cup of cold water to drink because he is a disciple, I tell YOU truly, he will by no means lose his reward."

    The decisions we make and the actions we take will now give us an indelible "mark".

    Angels will be standing by to separate the sheep from the goats.

    I have written this letter to you, not for my benefit, but for the sake of Jesus Christ our King.

    On one hand for the righteous this letter will be good news:

    Isaiah 61:1

    1 The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell good news to the meek ones. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to those taken captive and the wide opening [of the eyes] even to the prisoners; 2 to proclaim the year of goodwill on the part of Jehovah and the day of vengeance on the part of our God; to comfort all the mourning ones; 3 to assign to those mourning over Zion, to give them a headdress instead of ashes, the oil of exultation instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of the downhearted spirit; and they must be called big trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, for [him] to be beautified.

    On the other hand for the wicked ones:

    Micah 3:8-12

    I myself have become full of power, with the spirit of Jehovah, and of justice and mightiness, in order to tell to Jacob his revolt and to Israel his sin. 9 Hear, please, this, YOU head ones of the house of Jacob and YOU commanders of the house of Israel, the ones detesting justice and the ones who make even everything that is straight crooked; 10 building Zion with acts of bloodshed and Jerusalem with unrighteousness. 11 Her own head ones judge merely for a bribe, and her own priests instruct just for a price, and her own prophets practice divination simply for money; yet upon Jehovah they keep supporting themselves, saying: "Is not Jehovah in the midst of us? There will come upon us no calamity." 12 Therefore on account of YOU men Zion will be plowed up as a mere field, and Jerusalem herself will become mere heaps of ruins, and the mountain of the house will be as the high places of a forest.

    The dragon will now wage war with the remaining ones of the woman’s seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.

    May all your prayers be heard.

    With Christian love to all.

    Geoff Wright

  • rebel8

    Hi & welcome LL. Just think how much nicer your XMas will be next yr as compared to this yr!

    If you don't want a confrontation there is nothing wrong with that. Here are some things I've personally seen people do when they want to quit studies w/o a face to face confrontation. Don't answer the door. Don't be home at study time. Don't answer your phone or emails. Mail a letter stating you are officially quitting the study and not to make any further attempt to contact you. Leave a note taped to your front door quitting the study, labeled with the study conductor's name, on the day of the study but don't answer the door.

    A confrontation is satisfying to some of us but not to all. The goal is to stop contact with JWs and any of the above are equally as effective in reaching that goal. Here are some more tips about avoiding contact: www.jwinfo.50megs.com

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