JW Kids Leave the Organization: Facts

by Maximus 141 Replies latest jw friends

  • teejay
    teejay

    You must be kidding, or very new in the organization.

    Not kidding. Not new in the org.

    What acts?

    Above, I mentioned Dunlap and Ray Franz. Although their exits from the org were more or less forced, when the heat was on they let the truth come out. They similarly did not hide from the consequences. They were willing to pay whatever price.

    Bill's experience has been a little different. After coming to know the Society's pedo policy, it would have been easier for him to go with the flow and work for reform from within. Personally, I don't see how men can do that, but apparently many do. Bill didn't. He acted when he could have kept his position of prominence and prestige.

    "What acts" depends on the person, the position, circumstances... many variables. Evil prospers, and in the WTS it has for decades, when 'good men' either do nothing or work for 'glacial' reform from within. Imo.

    Good reputations count for squat when it comes to getting votes on the Governing Body. The system has eaten up the best men it has produced.

    Good men always have choices. If the system ate up the best men as you say, it was because they allowed it. I wasn't thinking of the gb. The good reputations I was referring to is the standing that men have with fellow dubs on the local level. Perhaps I'm mistaken. Come to think of it, the steps that Dunlap, Franz and Bowen took have swayed very few loyal dubs.

    Arm chair quarterbacks are a dime a dozen...

    I could not agree more. On the other hand, those with a position on the hill, so to speak, may have an impact where pip squeaks like me have little to no influence.

    tj

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    Hi, tj --

    I was stunned when "good men" did not support Ray and Ed, and I make no excuses for them today. It's so easy to shrug and say you can't do anything.

    You point out something fundamental but often overlooked: we always have a choice. We must invariably face the consequences of our choices as well.

    On bodies of elders, when a couple of them are snarling dogs, the gentle Christian hardly has a chance--until he realizes they have no real power over him.

    Once in awhile a Luther comes along and says, "Hier stehe ich." Here I stand, I can do no other.

    Can't speak for the consciences of others, but I can tell you I sure do sleep well at night.

    Maximus

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    Received a telephone call from an author who is a former JW out West.

    He notes that some 15 years ago there were 5 district conventions held at the Cow Palace in San Francisco around every July 4. All were English-speaking but one.

    This year there were 7 (8?), June through August, but only 3 were English-speaking. What happened to all those Anglo congregations?

    Anybody have information/confirmation/ whatever?

    Maximus
    Curious

  • larc
    larc

    Teejay,

    I disagree with you. All of us "pip squeaks" can make a difference by sqeaking. People like Bill Bowen and Maximus are making contributions at the macro level, but all of us can contribute. For example, Max was very encouraged by what my wife did by getting the information about the NH trial to newspapers and ministers, including a minister in Brooklyn Heights who is passing it on to the local newspaper that Bethelites read.

    To read what one "pip squeak" was able to do, go to amishabuse.com. One man, a truck driver like yourself, made a world of difference.

    I wrote about this Amish site once before, and if I can find it on search, I will bring it back to the most active list.

  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    "I could not agree more. On the other hand, those with a position on the hill, so to speak, may have an impact where pip squeaks like me have little to no influence."

    Even the smallest pip can influence someone or something; have you ever had a pip stuck in your teeth? And it just goes 'squeekysqueek' against that floss no matter what maneuvers you try to dislodge it?...you just never know what will be THE straw that breaks a camel's back. You never know when some tiny seed you planted will suddenly bloom up in a questioning JW's heart.

    'Position' is relative. Every sincere voice raised against the Tower's abuses is speaking from a position of power: the power of real unvarnished truth.

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    I agree with Mommie Dark,

    I believe there are only two important positive forces in human society: truth and love.

    There are not many truths outside of physical natural laws, almost everything we see and absorb on a daily basis is opinion or perspective. Because truth is so rare, it is precious and direly important to discover.

    Love is the positive energy of the universe that keeps things from imploding. By love, I mean concern for the unself, that which is not the self. Love is totally giving to the unself and expects no reward. Again, love is rare, but it does exist, and even in these small quantities it keeps things going.

    Our responsibility and the responsibility of all humans is to promote truth and love. That is where hope comes from.

    hugs

    Joel

  • Rex B13
    Rex B13

    >(I have a picture in my head of God sitting on his throne, desperately trying to come up with some legal basis for pardoning a wayward kid.)

    Hi Max,
    John 3.16,17 covers that quite well. Now think in these terms: God revealed Himself in the N.T. in the person of Jesus Christ and in the person of the Holy Spirit, which also ended the Law Covenant dispensation and began a new one, the Church Age.
    We are ourselves pardoned for our sin (Romans 3.23, 6.23) by seeking a personal relationship with Christ (John 14.6, John 3.3, Rev. 3.20) and we are saved by grace through faith (Eph. 2.8,9) and by belief that Jesus is God (I am) (John 8.24, Phil. 2.6-11, John 8.58).
    Those few scriptures encompass all of the plan of salvation, the REAL gospel that JWs don't preach.
    Rex

  • battman
    battman

    Joel,
    You are confusing annual growth with total growth. A 50% imcrease in
    10 years is only a 3% annual growth rate. Not very impressive when
    compared to Mormons and other with double digit annual growth. Most
    of the JW growth is in 3rd world countries There has actually been
    real declines in the 1st (Western) world for the last three
    consecutive years.

    battman

  • waiting
    waiting

    Howdy battman,

    A 50% imcrease in 10 years is only a 3% annual growth rate.
    'splain that?

    waiting

  • larc
    larc

    Waiting,

    Actually, it is about 4%. To calculate this put a one on your calculator and multiply it by 1.04. Take that the answer and multiply it my 1.04. Continue this ten times and you will get an answer of 1.49 or a 49% increase.

    Although the result is 4% over per anum over ten years, this is misleading. Ten years ago the growth was about 6% in the U.S. and 22 other developed countries. For the last three years the growth rate has been zero, zip, nata, zilch, in these countries.

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