JW Kids Leave the Organization: Facts (page 4)

Maximus

I am privately challenged by a lurking heavyweight elder who says all churches have problems with their youth. "Surely they have similar problems and dull Sunday sermons aren't the answer."

Last week I was given a service leaflet from an Episcopal church in the area. I'm going to type out a few items right off it:

On [date} Alpha classes begin, Mondays. Great food, relaxed fellowship, a non-threatening opportunity to hear teaching about the Christian faith, and lively discussion--provides a comfortable environment to explore Christianity.

Beta Bible classes: Theology, church history; Galatians, continued
Advanced Bible classes: 1st Isaiah, 2nd Isaiah, 3rd Isaiah

Contemplative prayer: Mondays through Fridays at 7 a.m.
Learning to meditate; readings in Thomas Merton, Henri Nouwen

Mommy and Me: New mothers, infants, toddlers; support and sharing

Sunday Nights at the Movies: Pizza and classics

20s/30s Potluck supper each Thursday. Different activity every month, a great way to get to know each other.

TNT: Tuesday Nights Together. Join us at 7:00, or if you've already eaten, arrive by 7:30 p.m. Choose what kind of activity you'd like to take part in that evening: a seminar; taking a walk in the gardens; Bible study; a volunteer project; making music; playing a game; a short-term small group project; anything else the community finds life-giving; or come with your own idea! Followed by Compline [group prayers].

Third Fridays at 6:30 p.m.
My Friend's Place. We throw our monthly birthday party for the clients at this homeless teen drop-in center. To volunteer, contact ...

Teens: Monday evenings, drug awareness and work with inner city children

Gays: Labor Day Weekend Retreat.

Last Sundays: Brunch, $4

Seniors: SAGES Bible study on Thursdays.

Question Sessions: Interested in finding out about Christian baptism? No pressure, no commitments, just a time to ask questions. Baptismal instruction begins 14 October [a several months course].

Saturdays, Young Women's Breakfast: Hear Dr. Pamela ____, gynecologist, discuss "Hormones--Managing the Roller Coaster."

See the booklet 101 Ways to Serve. [There are actually that many listed!]

Pueblo Nuevo Thrift Store: Your donations of clothing, shoes, fabrics for sewing, children's clothes, toys, books, games, furniture, lamps, electric appliances, dishes, pots and pans enable the Thrift Store to provide neighborhood residents with very affordable shopping, plus some employment opportunities.

Homeless Ministry: Homeless Assistance Office (placement services)
Habitat for Humanity
Neighborhood Youth Association
AIDS Outreach

Education for Ministry (a four-year course for anyone on the Bible, theology, church history)

Soup Kitchen: Local homeless, to Placement Assistance Office
Food Appeel: Provide fresh vegetables for inner city kids; you slice and dice.

Teen Reading Group
Adult Reading Group

There are sessions on poetry readings, sculpture classes and art classes.

Okay, Elder Tim. That's how Babylon does it.

Maximus

lisaBObeesa

Maximus said:

"the wts and the gb disgust me. how can they willfully and knowingly continue to mess up the lives of thousands of children?"

I have a theory on this. I made a post called, "raising kids to be cult members." Please, somebody read it and tell me your thoughts!

--LisaBobeesa

Maximus

Mmm, I think you put peaceloveharmony's words in my mouth ...

Trying to find the URL or thread. Can you post it, Lisa?

Maximus

lisaBObeesa

Sure, Maximus!

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10438&site=3

(right now it is about 12 posts down on the first page...)

Maximus

Lisa, I'm not easily impressed; but I sure am by the quality of reasoning and sound information that went into your post. I hope it gets wide attention, and I frankly am going to cut and paste it into some outgoing e-mails with traveling overseers who have not viewed the problem in this light.

Bingo! I heard chimes go off in my head.

: In short, poorly adjusted individuals who are ‘identity foreclosed’ make excellent cult members(!!!!). That is why the Borg wants the children raised this way, and always will.

Having known ten GB members very well, I can quibble with one aspect of the notion. What they want is to have their cake and eat it too. How so?

In their need to control, they do want placid folks--by definition, zombies. But zombies lack initiative and are not very effective or skilled or creative, and they need those qualities to run the show globally!

Example: They relented on college in the early '90s because they were getting such poor quality in Bethel applicants; the pendulum went the other way, and they are having problems once more.

Sorry about not finding your post; the bed pillows are screaming for me and I just overlooked your great essay.

Warmly,
Maximus

Lifted from Lisa:

From a textbook on child development, "Infants, Children, and Adolescents," by Laura E. Berk

“Identity foreclosed individuals have committed themselves to values and goals without taking time to explore alternatives. Instead, they accept a ready-made identity that authority figures (usually parents but sometimes teachers, religious leaders, or romantic partners) have chosen for them.”

“Foreclosed individuals tend to be dogmatic, inflexible, and intolerant. Some use their commitments in a defensive way, regarding any difference of opinion as a threat. Most are afraid of rejection by people on whom they depend for affection and self-esteem (Frank, Pirsch, & Wright, 1990: Kroger, 1995).”

.

TheOldHippie

But if you had found the opposite had been true, that 99.67% of "Witness children" had stayed Witnesses - would not you, and I, then have concluded that the Witnesses are just like any other religion, meaning that there is no personal choice or deliberate action, that one is simply "born into" what is considered "the one and only correct religious faith"?
I would have found myself more concerned and thoughtfull if 99.67 % of "Witness children" remained Witnesses, than if "just" 40 % do so, as the adult rate versus the world population is at 0.1 % or so.

lisaBObeesa

Maximus,

Thanks for reading it and being so kind! However you should not have been so kind as to not tell me that 88% and 22% equal 110%, not 100%! lol! (Silly me!)

As to the having their cake and eating it too, and college:

James Marcia did a study on adolescent identity status in 1967 that touched on this subject. Quoting from another of my textbooks, Child and Adolescent Development, by Seifert and Hoffnung, talking about foreclosed individuals who went to college:

"Their college experiences served mainly to confirm the childhood beliefs to which they rigidly held rather than provide challenging alternatives. " (Marcia, 1967)

So if the child is really foreclosed, and not leading a secret double life or hiding secret beliefs or questions, then college will not usually open their eyes (These are the educated Bethel applicants the Borg is looking for).

College IS 'dagerous' to the JW beliefs of youths who are not really foreclosed (yet?), but rather in 'Identity Moritorium'--that is, they havn't made up their minds. Since most of the JW youths fall into this catagory, it makes sense that the Borg would discourage college and try to hang onto these publishers...I guess..

--LisaBobeesa

edited to try to hide my math issues. Not even going to try to fix the spelling issues.

ozziepost

Max,

If I could add this in support of your own response to the challenge about "what are the churches doing?" :

Those raised in the truth as I was have no personal experience of churches. We only know what we are told in the publications or from the platform. So we grow to adulthood bearing a biased view. Of course we can never find out the true situation because we are afraid to set foot inside one of those places of "Babylon the Great". So we go through life with that view sincerely believing it to be so. We may even become elders and platform speakers and perpetuate that view in our talks.

My advice to the lurking elder is: Taste and see for yourself. Have you the courage to do it?

Cheers,
Ozzie

"Evil is the absence of empathy"
Movie (2000), Nuremberg

Naeblis

Ihate to do this Lisa but it's 110% not 120% :P

lisaBObeesa

DOH!

JW Kids Leave the Organization: Facts

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