D'Fing and Love

by I-CH-TH-U-S 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • Golf

    I didn't believe in D'Fing before and during being an Elder. Why? I work my tail off in helping the people to learn what we were taught. It takes a great of time for some to embrace the faith, and then once in the faith, if and when they committ a wrong, they are quickly expelled. This was a no-no with me.


  • jaffacake

    In my limited experience and understanding, there are many things I don't understand:

    Why a JW does not get disfellowshipped for things clearly condemned in the Bible, yet he would presumably get disfellowshipped for celebrating family birthdays, which is clearly not condemned in the Bible.

    Is this disfellowshipping Scriptural? Is it more important to obey men than Scriptures?

    I mean, can you imagine reading in the New Testament about some Christian being disfellowshipped for sending a gift to a family member to celebrate their birthday?

  • bythesea

    While I haven't experienced DF personally I've gone through it with several family members, including my son who is currently DF for the second time. The first time was after going to the bros, as repentant as all get out, for what a bunch of the young people in various congs were engaging in that WAS wrong by Biblical standards. He chose, on his own, to go and confess and clear his conscious...he was sorry and wanted to get back on a better track. They DFed him...and the night it was announced in the cong one of the elders on his JC took me aside and explained that my son was indeed repentant, BUT........they were making an example of him because the wrong doing had come to be known in the different congs and they wanted to send a message. These words came out of the PO's own mouth. So, so much for the JW party line of only UNrepentent wrongdoers are DFed! Since we had been so confident that our son would be treated lovingly and helped along it came as quite a shock....and it took 3 years for him to come back around and be reinstated. My disillusionment began to grow.....and grow.....and grow.....

    The current story....He requested a meeting with the bros to clear up a misunderstanding he'd had with a committee in a previous KH...they learned he was seeing a DF girl (the reason he'd had the JC at the other KH) and while they were willing to set matters straight they advised him to quit seeing the girl. He explained that they were already discussing marriage and he didn't know if he wanted to wait until she was reinstated. So they chose to DF for what he MIGHT do in the future...ie. continue to see her. Since they did DF him the kids have gone ahead and gotten married and both are working towards reinstatement again. Darn!!!

    I've been associated with JW for over 20 years and it took until my son's experience to see that they don't live up to their own teachings about DFing...repentent sinners DO get DF and you can be DF for something you might decide to do in the future. How is ANY of that scriptural and how does it show love????? I was sorry I encouraged our son to go to the bros....and never would suggest to a person that they seek out their assistance ever again, thinking that a wrong can be righted by their "loving" help.

    Bottom line: The WTS places itself & the need for reconciliation with a human org above direct repentence before God & seeking HIS forgiveness alone. It disavows the Bible teaching of Jesus' sacrifice. It adds definitions and descriptions to sin & makes confession to MEN a condition of forgiveness & salvation. In doing this it negates the entire construct of salvation through Christ- Salvation through approaching God & him alone...the org surplants God & Christ....the hurt and damage can last a lifetime.

    Sorry this is so long.....I don't post often, but this is definitely one of my pet peeves against the WTS! Bythesea

  • seven006

    Dfing is a great measuring device to see how deeply a person is brainwashed. The watchtower company (like all cults) needs to have some device to gage the gullibility of those who have bought into the whole scam. It is just a byproduct of ones acceptance of everything a cult has redefined as their version of the truth. All cults redefine concepts of things such as love, loyalty, and social acceptance, to fit their own agenda orientated interpretation. Once you have redefined the concept of something like” love” and convinced your followers into a group way of thinking and acceptance, you can redefine anything you want and have them buy it hook line and sinker.(ie. the average JW accepting that it was their fault for misinterpreting what the watchtower said repeatable about 1975) The word love is then thought of in terms the cult has redefined it as and it becomes accepted in it’s new meaning by those who would rather have others define and think for them, as opposed to an individual thinking for themselves.

    This process is first implemented into ones way of thinking by convincing a person that they do not, and should not, have the ability to think for themselves. Scriptures from a several thousand-year-old text are then shown, adjusted to fit their specific agenda, and then given as proof to back up this interpretation. Since the one being convinced is already in the “group think” mode, he/she accepts this redefinition and interpretation from the person that they “think” knows more about the subject then they do.

    Step by step and inch by inch things are redefined and adjusted to fit what the one who is coming off like they know what they are talking about and accepted by those who have no clue or desire to find out things for themselves.

    Redefining words and concepts are the ultimate key to the success of any cult. Those who are either too lazy or too feeble of mind to think for themselves slip easily into the control of the cult leaders. They are defined by their cult leaders in what seems to be a positive light as the “meek, the humble, and the teachable. Once a person accepts that lower position in life as nothing more than a biological hard drive, they simply take on more information and process it the way they have been programed to do.

    This is why JW’s and those who think that particular cult has “the truth” see disfellowshipping as an act of love. The word love has been redefined to the point where being shunned and rejected by your family and friends is normal to those who are totally brainwashed. The concept of what is, or is not, “normal” is also redefined by the cult and accepted by those who have given up their ability to think for themselves to the cult. People do this because it is a lot easier to have someone else think for them and define things that they do not give themselves credit enough for to define themselves. They snuggle comfortably into your position of being meek, humble and teachable and let others do the hard work.

    Extreme examples of the level of acceptance of things redefined are, the unquestionable drinking of poisoned kool aid at Jonestown, watching their children die in the fire at Waco, slipping under the sheets to go meet the space ship at Heavens gate, and watching your child, sibling or parent die for refusing a blood transfusion. They all think they were right because they were programmed to think they were right and accepted the redefinitions and interpretations of those who they had surrendered their ability to think for themselves, to.

    So is disfellowshipping an act of love? To the cult programed JW mind, it is.

  • Cordelia

    bythesea im sorry for your siruation, that is very cruel but you are right the hurt can last a lifetime,

    i have took away my ill aging parents happiness in the last years of life i got dfed for texting a guy that i couldnt see ghim anymore!! they said i should not of had a phone coz i knew he text me before, but i swear i said no!! i can get a scripitual divorce for twenty seconds of touching NOTHING ELSE it is a joke!!!!

    dfing has destroyed me and my family i have just posted about this as it hurts me so much!

    anewme you are wrong if they reinstate you it is a joke you said you were not attending all the meetings so how on earth can you even be putting your letter in???

    you say dfing is the last resort well for me it certainly was not!

    also you say : 'quit sinning =be welcomed back into the flock,' what a load of crap, no its 'quit sinning, but hey spend 12 months coming to ALL the meetings being stripped of your huminity go before 3 men and only then may you MAYBE be welcomed back, u seem to have a good releationship with your new po are you sure he doesnt fancy you as i have never known of such nice treatment!

    im sorry anewme to go on, im just pretty bitter at the mo, if you think attending the meetings means you will come close to jehovah then i wish you well.

  • tijkmo
    Disfellowshipping is more about keeping the congregation free from contaminating influences that might interfere with the operation of the flow of Jehovahs Holy Spirit than about love.

    i dont know how repentant king david was...i do know he wasnt as repentant as i was...or cordelia

    and he didnt have to give up bathsheba who he was now in love with...

    so anewme...here is a challenge for you....i gave up the woman i loved because it was the right thing to do...cordelia was prepared to do the same...we both still got df-ed anyway....if when you meet the elders they discuss with you this passage from ezra...and tell you that you can only be reinstated if you do the same and if you do not you will remain df-ed and no-one will speak to you or smile at you or share their literature with you...then will you still think it is a loving requirement...and then consider that that is exactly what i and cordelia and many others were prepared to do and that the jcs refusal to accept this has left us not just without friends and family and homes and jobs....but without faith...which is a far worse thing to lose than any physical thing or person

    Ezra used the expression "we." Yes, he included himself, though he was not personally guilty. Ezra’s deep distress along with his humble prayer touched the hearts of the people and motivated them to works befitting repentance. They volunteered a painful remedy—all who had violated God’s Law would send the foreign wives back to their homelands, along with children born to them. Ezra agreed to this measure and encouraged the guilty ones to comply. With the authority invested in him by the Persian king, Ezra had the right to execute all lawbreakers or to banish them from Jerusalem and Judah. (Ezra 7:12, 26) But it appears that he did not have to take such action. "All the congregation" said: "Exactly according to your word it devolves upon us to do." Furthermore, they confessed: "We have rebelled to a great extent in this matter." (Ezra 10:11-13) Ezra chapter 10 lists the names of 111 men who followed through on the decision by sending away their foreign wives and the children born to them
    .the irony here is that the only person who knows without any doubt at all the damage that wrongful df-ing can do...is jehovah...and he does nothing....why even at the recent elders schools the arrangement was reinforced rather than being readjusted...clear evidence that jehovah is not directing the organization that bears his name
  • Cordelia

    tik i never thought about how he didnt give up bath shee ba all i thought sbout was how the prodigal son decided hed rather not eat pig crap anymore and went home (for a good meal!) and how mannasseh WHEN IN PRISON softened jehs face and was forgiven, and how judah slept with his daughter in law believing her to be a prositute!) and yet was 'righteous'

    but hey why should the fds take any notice of that its only peoples lives (and their familys) the're playing about with,

    and im sorry anewme but if you get reinstated when you've openly admitted that you dont go to all the meetings than we must be in a different religon!!

  • Pistoff
    im sorry anewme but if you get reinstated when you've openly admitted that you dont go to all the meetings than we must be in a different religon!!

    This is the reality of locally interpreted and applied rules, you can't call them anything else: different elders, different outcomes. Your case would not even be a judicial case in another congregation.

    In my hall, a young struggling brother was made to wait 16 months for reinstatement. Not 80 miles away, a 45 year old scheming, greedy, long time cheating brother (who also contributed a lot to the hall, CO's and DO's) was back in within 9 months. His affair had gone on for YEARS; he did not go to them until he was caught. In my old hall, a brother convicted of theft and df'd was let back after 5 years out, but only 5 meetings once he decided to come back in!! It's stupid; you can't figure it out, because it is inconsistent, wrong headed, evil and destructive to family relationships. Your parents think they love you unconditionally; they don't if they think you should be shunned.

    STOP putting power in their hands.

    Take back your life. Go to school. FORGET them. They are NOT worthy of you; you are a good person.

  • serendipity

    Hi bythesea,

    I can definitely relate. I had a similar experience with the elders/JC who told me that though I was repentent, they were still going to df me because I should have known better than to fornicate. Up until that time I was supportive of the WTS, and just blamed myself for my failings. The experience with the JC opened my eyes and I knew that there were major problems with org. policies. It destroyed my confidence in them and allowed me to realize that they weren't spirit-directed as they like to claim and were just mere mortal men.

  • 2112

    We must not forget that the "punishment" of D'fing starts the moment someone starts to become indoctrinated. Everything that is non-JW is of Satan. So when you leave you are with Satan no matter where you go. (I remember being told that "if you aren't a JW then you are worshiping Satan whether you know it of not." I found it funny that you could deliberately worship some one by accident.) Also if you were a "good JW" then you have already cut off most of your non JW family and friends except for trying to convert them. Then, when you do leave, you do feel alone. As far as the love goes, they tell you that shunning you is showing you love (really they are telling themselves that), but all it is a fear of man. They don't want to be judged but other JW's.

    To tell someone that I love you and care about you, just as long as you believe what I believe, when I believe it, and to the same degree I believe it, is not unconditional love. And if there are conditions place upon it is not love it is merely acceptance. Is that not a sad state of affairs that you are only allowed accept your children, (family and friends to) not unconditionally love them. To be able to turn your emotions off like that is a form of psychosis that is highly destructive and anti-social. I know this all seems scary to some but it is a sad reality. I have seen this and a lot worse first hand, as have many others.

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