For those of us who still believe in God...

by MrMoe 90 Replies latest jw friends

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Quester,

    I think the flood account is an eye witness account and tells the story from that point of veiw.
    It must have been gigantic, and wiped out all of Adam's offspring except Noah and his family, but not global, did Noah or Shem even have any idea the earth was a spere, I don't think so.

    I think to understand the Bible we have to try to go back to what the Bible writers new and meant at the time of their writting, not to what we in the 21 century take it, but what they new and meant at the time.

    I think we make a big mistake when we read it and don't keep this in mind.

    The same goes for Job's and Isaiah's statements about the earth.

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    : I dont need the bible to convince me of a creator.
    The beauty of the creation, the way everything works in harmony, the sheer complexity of everything all proves in itself intelligent design.

    You mean like the virus that eat up the inside of your body and finally cause you to puke out your internal organs right before they take your life and begin to look for another host?

    Tapeworms, hookworms, malaria, bubonic plague, yellow fever, leprosy, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, smallpox, poliomelitis, chicken pox, influenza, syphillis all show "The beauty of the creation, the way everything works in harmony, the sheer complexity of everything all proves in itself intelligent design."

    Farkel

  • ChrisVance
    ChrisVance

    For all of you that believe in the god of the bible: you should read what the bible says about your "god." If after learning all the evils deeds the bible says he's commited and you still want to worship him, you have my deepest sympahty. There's no hope for you.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Deareast SlayerDude, Mommie-Girl and Zep-i-Dee-doo-Da... (sorry, I like nicknames)... peace to you all!

    Slayer... dude, you asked:

    But you didn't believe. At least not immediately. You thought it was demons.

    Well, no, I didn't believe WHO it was. But I most certainly knew I heard voices.

    Isn't that a lack of faith?

    The word of my Lord is that yes, to some degree it is. Thus, he said he had to GIVE me faith. (1 Corinthians 12:9)

    In fact, you even questioned him, still believing it was a demon.

    My Lord knows I did. Praise JAH... for mercy.

    So I'm confused. You also said that HE gave you the FAITH.

    Yep. "Faith" is not only a 'fruit' of the Spirit, but a 'gift'. Check out the verse above.

    Doesn't that take the meaning out of the word? Does he just magicaly "give" people faith?

    No, one can possess a measure of faith... less than a mustard seed. HE... can grant one enough faith to make up the deficit. All that is NEEDED is faith 'the size of a mustard seed.' Problem is, Slayer, that we have been MISLED into understand what 'faith' REALLY is. As I said, when I realized what I had... or lacked... I was SO sad about everyone else. Truly. I mean, if I was there, where in the WORLD was everyone else in THEIR faith? Blew me away!

    If so, doesn't that take the work out it?

    Initially, yes. But you have to work to 'KEEP the faith' (sorry, cliche not intended). Take Paul: he had an evident demonstration of realities, yes? Saw a flashing light, became blind, heard a voice... had his sight restored. But I PROMISE you... those things are not enough! How do I know? Look at all that the Israelites SAW... in Egypt... after. Yet, three days after crossing the Red Sea... they lost faith! Got scared. And did so all throughout their journey, even though they were given EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION of the realities. Faith 'is not the possession of all men' and for those HAVE faith, the majority of it is what we have been 'given'. I promise you.

    There was a time long ago, when I prayed to Jehovah also.

    Stop praying to 'Jehovah'. Pray instead to my Father, JAH OF ARMIES... and be sure to tell Him that you are approaching Him in the name of and THROUGH my Lord JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH. Ask Him to grant you a portion of His holy spirit... AND send my Lord to you.

    I remembering praying to get come closer to Jesus as well.

    See above.

    Why didn't I hear voices? Because my faith wasn't strong enough?

    The word of my Lord to YOU, Slayer, is that you indeed DID hear his voice... but you did not KNOW it, nor put FAITH in it, because you had been taught NOT to... as well as not been taught what to listen for... and how. I can help, if you wish.

    But yours wasn't either, because you didn't even believe him when he told you who he was. If he just magicaly "gave" you faith, then why you and not me?

    My Lord has said that he knew I WOULD believe, because of the bit of faith I did have. He understood that I responded in the lines of what I had been TAUGHT, but that once he answered my question, I would believe... and 'exercise' faith. He knew/knows me better than I knew/know myself... as he does you. Why? Because he knows the HEART.

    At that time in my life, I was earnestly and sincerely searching for him.

    My Lord says that that statement is true, but that for some reason... you let fear take over... and lost what little bit of faith you possessed. He said the fear... was of being misled once again. So, rather than risk being misled, you CHOSE... in your heart... to work on dismissing him. He said, however, that although you have tried to dismiss him COMPLETELY... you have been unable to. And it bothers you, for you have questions to which he has answers. But... you will not 'come to HIM'... and get your answers.

    Again, I'm not trying to pick your story apart, I just don't understand.

    I ABSOLUTELY understand that, Slayer. Were I a false slave of Christ, I would be offended, perhaps, because such ones usually have something to hide... like their TRUE identity and lack of knowledge and spirit. My Lord did not chagrin at the many questions asked him by his disciples, and he has taught me the same. I have no fear of being questioned, of my FAITH being questioned... and am quite ready to provide for all who demand it, a 'reason for my hope'. Ask away, dear one.

    Zep, dear one...

    You stated:

    God has never spoken to me...I don't know why?

    Actually, He has, through Christ. He has spoken to ALL. All just don't LISTEN, because they have not be told they CAN, that He indeed SPEAKS... and how to listen. As I told Slayer, I can help you if you wish.

    Although, i did pray once for him show me 'the way' and a few days later some JW's knocked on my door!

    Question: did you ask Him to show you 'the way'... or 'the truth'? I had asked to be shown the 'truth'... and Witnesses showed up. Guess what they call themselves? And so, the Adversary got to my door first. But... it was to my 'benefit', for my Lord used that experience to show me what sin and transgression IS... and to at least give me an introduction to who I was... where I had originated from... and who I was TRULY searching for. They were 'harsh' shepherds, indeed. But, my Lord has called me out... I HEARD him... and now I follow only him.

    Why is it you are supposed to believe and have faith first before God will talk to you.

    Because WITHOUT faith... it is impossible to please Him well. Without faith, you cannot 'see' God. For you MUST believe that He is. If you don't believe He IS... and that He SPEAKS... you won't accept it when He does speak and when He reveals Himself, through Christ. You will, as we have been taught to do, attribute it to everything BUT Him.

    It would seem so much easier if God would just get up and talk to everyone regardless of what their belief system. He could answer so many Questions and correct so many misunderstandings.

    Indeed, it would be. My Lord says (and excuse his humor)... 'been there; done that'. And Israel STILL didn't 'exercise' faith. Now, it is only FOR those who 'exercise' faith. Make sense? That is what makes the separation between those who truly DO believe in God... and those who SAY they do... but truly don't.

    Why doesn't he just come down speak to the head guys at Brooklyn for instance?

    Lord, child, why in the WORLD would he want to do that? What happened when He sent His SON to talk to the Pharisees? They KILLED Him! Those men don't 'belong' to my Lord. It is THEIR 'god' that speaks to them. Thus, they have 'two horns LIKE a lamb... but speak... as a dragon.' They are liars.

    He could tell them why their blood rule is wrong, why Dfing is wrong and save a lot of people a lot of heart ache...

    They already KNOW this, Zep. I PROMISE you. And they know I know it (at least, Carey Barber does)... and others know it. Problem is, there are still so many 'sheep' who WANT to be misled. As my Father's prophet Jeremiah is recorded to have said:

    "The prophets themselves actually prophesy in
    falsehood, and as for the priests, they go
    subduing according to THEIR powers. And my
    own people have LOVED it that way;
    and what
    will you men do in the FINALE of it?"

    Jeremiah 5:31

    Remember, Pilate asked the PEOPLE who they wanted released: Barrabas or my Lord. What did THEY want?

    But anyway, if you find peace in your beliefs, good for you. Just as long as it don't hurt no-one else i guess!

    Truly, there is no pain, harm... or lack of love... in truth, Zep.

    Mommy-Girl (you sweetheart)...

    Girl, you are getting deeper and deeper in my heart.

    Thank you, dear one. Hopefully, it is my SPIRIT... the spirit of my Father and my Lord that is 'going deep' there! LOL!

    I love your personalty

    It is the 'new' personality, cultivated and refined by my Father through my Lord, so all praise is due to the Most High God, JAH OF ARMIES, and all glory is to be given to His Christ, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH...

    and would love to meet you one day. Feel free to email me. If you are near NY perhaps we can get together.

    Then you shall... I will... and next year I will be in the 'city'. I will keep in touch and we WILL meet and fall on each other's necks. I will wash your feet... and perhaps you will concede to share a bit of wine and bread with me. If you wish.

    Slayer, I knew you had a great heart

    He does, doesn't he. A true 'gem'.

    Again, peace to you ALL... and I am YOUR servant... to time indefinite...

    A slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • bboyneko
    bboyneko

    Once I heard voices in my head, but it turned out it was just that the little hamster who runs on the wheel in my skull was making personal calls to his hamster buddies. I was mad at him cus he was slackin at the job.

    For a minute I had thought i was crazy.

  • Quester
    Quester

    D Wiltshire,
    Yes, I have heard some think a flood really
    did happen, but not a global one.

    You brought out some good points.
    Appreciated your comments.
    Quester

  • Naeblis
    Naeblis

    Shelby? Since you got God's ear and all.. can you ask him a question for me?? Where the hell did I leave my keys??? *scratches head* If he can tell me where I left my keys I'll worship him :) He will be my little key god :)

  • Faraon
    Faraon

    Quester,

    D Wiltshire,
    Yes, I have heard some think a flood really did happen, but not a global one.
    You brought out some good points.
    Appreciated your comments.
    Quester

    Gen 7: 18-20.
    18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet.

    Note that the bible comments that all the mountains high under the entire heaven were covered with 20 feet of water. It could not have been a local event if all, not only a few, mountains on Earth were covered.

    JRP

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Naeb, dear one (peace to you!)...

    I am neither a psychic, nor a spirit 'medium'. You got a question... ask for yourself. Or perhaps you could call, what's her name, "Mother Cleo" on the "900" network, and have her consult the Tarot cards for ya. She oughta be able to help you out...

    As for me, though, I wouldn't 'waste' my 'gift' on asking questions FOR you... (unless you... and the matter... were quite serious) and certainly not about some keys.

    My peace remains and I am, still,

    Your servant (for now), and a slave of Christ,

    SJ

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Faraon,

    [quote]
    Note that the bible comments that all the mountains high under the entire heaven were covered with 20 feet of water. It could not have been a local event if all, not only a few, mountains on Earth were covered.
    [quote]

    If it was an eye witnesses account by Noah, or Shem, and they had no idea the size or shape of the earth could it not just appear to have covered every mountain in their view in the land of Mesopotamia?

    Can we at least conclude that an eye witness account would allow for those statement you just quoted but not in fact be refurring to a complete global deluge?

    And what about the readers of this account that read it say 4,000 years ago would they have understood it to mean the whole globe when they didn't even know the Earth was round like a ball.

    I think we have to remember what people back then actually knew and what they didn't know to come to a correct or at least better understanding of what Noah, or Shem meant.

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