Where did God go??

by fairchild 52 Replies latest jw experiences

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    (((fairchild))),

    first of all, thanks for making me laugh my head off when you chose to represent satan as me. i am honoured, LOL.

    second, i want to say that i really, really enjoyed reading your thread post. i thought it was well written, but more importantly, it took me right back to the time when i was feeling very, very similar about god. it's been a while since i have had these feelings and thoughts and rationalizations. and that was a beautiful trip. thanks.

    but what i really want to say is this:

    everyone is an atheist. there isn't anyone who believes in all possible gods. therefore, everone is an atheist about the gods that they already do not believe in.

    so, don't be afraid to continue on in your journey. in a way, in a simple way, you already know how it works.

    however, i do understand the feelings of loss. it's true, atheism is not as comforting as beleif when confronted in ones own mortality, or with the task of finding greater meaning to our existence. we end up giving ourselves our own meaning. this is beautiful at once, and right away it is also tragic. i think, personally, that we have really screwed ourselves up with this god concept. we're sort of crippled for life, in a way.

    but life is beautiful without god. the sense of awe wells up from within. you notice that it comes from within, and not without. and this is when life becomes beautiful for the non-believer.

    i noticed you mentioned a couple of things about design, and creation. and it's true, creation and design does add meaning and specialness to our existence in a very certain way. but the fact of the matter is that evolution is a much more simple explanation for the amazing nature that we are a part of. however, ironically the simpler of the two explanations is the harder one to learn.

    nature, at first glance, looks like a fine tuned watch. but then again, what else would it be?

    it's like the infamous dawkins' quote where it is observed that a puddle is perfectly suited for the dent in the road, because it fits it so well! and not the other way around. the creationist says that the puddle is perfectly made for the dent. the evolutionist says that the dent dictates what shape the puddle takes. and that is nature too! every organism fits the ecological niche it is a part of because the niche has dictated to the organisms ancestors exactly what form it should take, and hence the appearance of organisms that fit their niches so well. this looks like magic at first glance, but upon further observation and research, you realize there is no magic other than what we assign to it.

    if you ever look at some complex biological life form, and want to understand how the evolutionist explains it, just put 10 million mutations between it and a distant ancestor of a different "kind". and then, if you still cannot fathom how something that novel and complex arose with no design, then just put another 10 million tuned mutations in the mix, and you start to see that nature is the best designer because there is just no other way that it could be. if it wasn't as fine tuned as evolution, then there would not be any of this.

    i recommend www.talkorigins.org an excellent site that will answer your technical questions about nature and the amazing, yet unconscious, brilliance of it.

    you are so right though. if god had any intention for us to be on par with him, there would be no other religions and no confusion. but even if god was who he said he is, merciful and loving, then there would not be all this crap. either that or we have a more evolved version of mercy and justice, and god has simply fallen behind. or perhaps, perhaps we have outgrown ancient notions of sky gods, living up on the mountains, and answering petitions from mortals. perhaps, and ironically, we are becomming human in doing this.

    well, i'm not making sense, sorry. maybe more later.

    anyways, it's really cool that you have been honest with yourself and your efforts to befriend god. this one last god of gods. it's takes strength, good for you. and remember, there is no rush and no pressure. we're not JWs anymore. it's okay to be wrong about stuff, and to take all the time in the world to figure it out.

    TS

  • Justin
    Justin

    The God of organized religion doesn't seem to be working for you right now. If you try too hard to find answers, you may not find any. So open yourself up to another revelation - take up bird watching! Not as a hobby, but as a spiritual practice. Get a good field guide and learn to identify the different species of birds where you live. However, even this won't work if you keep thinking about God while your watching the birds and thinking of them as proof of intelligent design. Just observe their habits and get your mind off your problems. You'll be in paradise here and now. Perhaps later God will be revealed to you in a more personal way, so I'm not asking you to abandon the quest. But for now, it's time for something new.

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    There is no external god. The atheists are right about that side of it. There is an old story about the guy who searched the world's shrines, churches, gurus, etc to find god, but found him not. Returning home, he gave up, surrendured, and found god within himself. 'God' is also in everything. Focussed meditation would probably show it to you.

    At any rate, don't take others' word for it. If you don't/can't experience it for yourself, i recommend to not worry about it. It's not that important. If it was, it would be more obvious. We are on this dirt ball, in this dimension for what we can experience here. Extra perceptions beyond it are bonusses, not requirements.

    S

  • Sheepish
    Sheepish

    Wow. What a lot of emptiness in response to your heartfelt question.. As the bumpersticker reads: There is a God, and you are not Him

    The creation explodes with evidence of a creator. We are all given free will till the end. All of us...Hitler, Mother Tereasa, you. Seek and you will find. Nothing has changed. You stop seeking, or you don't really seek--you're not going to find anything but bogus humanism to replace the real thing.The answers are out there! (And it ain't that difficult). PM me if you want to talk more.Sheepish

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    People who are anti-humanism are anti-human, since humanism is human centered. What a sad attitude.

    S

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas
    What a lot of emptiness in response to your heartfelt question...The answers are out there!

    How sad that you believe that God/Truth is so tiny and limited as to not be present here and now within, and is instead a fragment "out there", somewhere.

    Tell me Sheepish, what experience have you ever experienced that was out side of you? Please tell me what experience was other than your very own intimate sense of occurrence? Can you not see that your entire experience and sense of universe and self is all unfolding within you? How sad you consider advice to look within ourselves to lead to only "emptiness".

    What the word G-o-d points to, is not so small and limited as to be absent.

    j

  • crazyblondeb
    crazyblondeb

    I found my answers, and it wasn't where I thought it would be!

    blessed be,

    shelley

  • fairchild
    fairchild
    I still believe that one day he will come back from vacation and fulfil what he said he'd do.

    I wish I could believe that. But God doesn't go on vacation. He's either there or he's not. It always boils down to the same old question.. is it right under our nose and we just don't or won't see it? Or is there nothing, and the whole belief system is a product of our imagination? Perhaps an ancient tale which was carried over from father to son? I don't know and I wouldn't dare answer that question at this point in time.

    I think its like what people always tell you about romance, when you try to force it, that doesn't work, and when you least expect it romance blooms. I think being spiritual can be the same way, when you try and force it, or think it has to be a certain way, the more you try the farther you get away from it.

    Wise words big dog, and so true! However, there have been times that I really forced it (spirituality, not romance) and times when I just let go of it. The result has been the same.. nothing.

    Dave, thanks for the links. I am going to check them out as soon as I'm done replying here.

    I have said before that if I left my house for the weekend and just left my then teenagers home alone That I would have the RULES writen down SOOOOOO CLEARLY that they would have NO excuse if anything happened while I was gone!

    Now why did God not do that?

    Exactly! Now all I need is an answer to that question.. why did God not do that? Is it because he doesn't exist, is it because he doesn't care, or DID he do that and I don't see it?

    I suggest you kiss goodbye all beliefs of a deity

    If I am really honest with myself, I think that the reason why I have not done that so far is because it will take away any hope of (or belief in) a life hereafter. I am not quite ready for that.

    And if God exists, hopefully he isn't an a**hole!

    Unfortunately, I'm afraid that I have come to the conclusion that if God exists, he isn't as loving as the JWs make him out to be.

    A person who supposedly knew about such things once explained to me that this universe and everything in it is just one of a bazillion universes, environment, xerascapes that God has created.

    I don't think that anyone really *knows*. The journey towards a certain knowledge, any knowledge is usually interesting and often passionate. But to me, the journey towards knowledge of God or no God is rather annoying, it never seems to end.

    first of all, thanks for making me laugh my head off when you chose to represent satan as me. i am honoured, LOL.

    HAHA I knew you'd be honored. Thank you though for your thoughts on this subject. I will check out that link because I have to admit that I don't know the first thing about evolution. As you well know, us bible students with the WTS were not supposed to look into that subject too deeply. And why would we have? They had the truth and the truth was all we ever needed to know.

    but life is beautiful without god.

    Yes, I know and concur. But IF there is a God, is life fair without him? Is it fair to exclude him? Of course you do notice the *but* I used. I agree that life is beautiful. As a matter of fact, I think it is beyond beautiful. There is beauty in everything, and I am not just talking about nature..

    if god had any intention for us to be on par with him, there would be no other religions and no confusion.

    Exactly.

    You'll be in paradise here and now.

    I have indeed discovered that our paradise on earth is here and now. Once I realized that, it brought a sense of happiness which I had never felt before. We have two choices, we can concentrate on the good things or on the bad things. Both will happen to us and to the ones we love.. good and bad. The choice is entirely up to us. If we don't like the whole picture, we can always stare at a small detail we like.

    If you don't/can't experience it for yourself, i recommend to not worry about it. It's not that important.

    I'm not sure about that. It is important to me as a person. Much like gold was important for the gold diggers. If they couldn't find it, they just kept digging.

    The creation explodes with evidence of a creator. We are all given free will till the end. All of us...Hitler, Mother Tereasa, you. Seek and you will find. Nothing has changed. You stop seeking, or you don't really seek--you're not going to find anything but bogus humanism to replace the real thing.The answers are out there! (And it ain't that difficult).

    Very interesting thoughts here. Yes, we are all have free will. Hitler made his choice, Mother Teresa made hers, and at one point I made mine by joining the JWs. Why? Like you said, seek and you will find. I thought I had found it. But then trouble started to cloud my spiritual paradise. The WTS was involved with the UN, 1975 came and went, "this generation" started to die off, Jerusalem wasn't destroyed when they said it was, nothing more touching than the story of Raymond Franz and how he kept searching for evidence on that date, wanting it to be true..

    You stop seeking, or you don't really seek--

    Let's say that you misplace an important object somewhere in the house.. You start searching and searching, just knowing that it HAS to be there somewhere. After searching the whole house up and down you don't find it. Now you are starting to wonder.. is it really here? Perhaps I left it at work.. You are still searching, because you really need that object. But your search becomes only halfhearted, because you are starting to think that it might not be in the house after all.. This is where I am right now.. my object might not be in the house after all, but trust me if I tell you that it took me 20 something years to turn the house upside down in order to find it.

    I found my answers, and it wasn't where I thought it would be!

    I am hoping to find mine too..

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    I feel "God," or "faith," is not a luxury.

    You can spend your whole life in church, reading the Bible, praying to the ceiling or whatever... what you don't really need you will never really find.

    Perhaps the lingering worry in your mind is just to be accepted peacefully as the promise that you will eventually find whatever you come to need. (Rolling Stones coming to mind here.)

    But you can't rob the poor of their blessing.

  • Evanescence
    Evanescence
    But if God created us, then I don't understand why he couldn't be a bit more clear as to who exactly he is and what exactly he expects of us.

    There is a huge division in the churches yes.... have you looked into history on why that may be? we are all humans and there are people out there that start new things and others who interpretate differently.

    e.g. you see the four gospels, 4 people witnessed the one thing but wrote the case out a bit differently... its like that a lot today...

    Satan would love to get the truth harder to know.... like the path to heaven being narrow while the path to hell being broard.

    I know that people from all different churches weather it be Catholic, prodestant or Baptist etc. people from all those churches have a personal relationship with God, he does understand the complication that arises in the world today.

    Do not give up on finding the truth, maybe post on some christian boards, I recommend this one www.christianforums.com it has people from all the churches.

    And maybe you could try attending some churches in your area, or looking at some christian websites.

    Remember we all have free will, and its the free will that people chose to turn against God, its our sins we have to pay for, thus the cause to some of the suffering in the world today, other peoples sins.

    Not all suffering is bad, suffering can be a blessing in disguise. Disasters like Earthquakes and Hurricanes brings the world closer together and the people become stronger and learn more about brotherhood.

    Like the Tsmarmi appeal that happened at the end of 2004 and the start of this year I feel did bring everone closer together and the world was more awakened by their surroundings and it was a sort of a reminder to many others of the blessings they do have in their lives.

    God does help people through their suffering if they let him, as in the bible it says "God's inflicks wounds but he also bandages up"

    God does care, if you seek him you will find him

    Evanescence

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