Now finally the elders want a clear answer / They know my stand about blood and much more

by Daniel1555 73 Replies latest members private

• 

  Daniel1555

  Hi all

  It's been a while that I posted the last time.

  A lot of things happened. My wife separated in January and since then I have to fight for solutions also concerning my visitation right for my little boy. But that's another story I will maybe write another time.

  Now I have another problem where I need your advice.

  In December, I told the elders (with all my reasons) that I would accept blood in a medical urgency for me and my son (my wife wanted that I tell the elders).

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/medical/267774/1/I-told-the-elders-that-I-would-take-blood-and-donate-blood#.Uyymt_l5NDI

  Since then, I had long discussions with the elders about my view on blood and also about shunning. First I thought, they would leave it at that, but today, they had another meeting with me and said:

  They need a clear statement, a clear answer from me to the following questions:

  Do you accept and believe that the faithful and discreet slave is the governing body and is directed by Jehovah?

  Do you accept the teachings that the faithful and discreet slave set up?

  During the discussion today, they asked if I view myself as a JW. I said yes, because I dedicated my life to my creator, not to a human organisation. I also told them, that I might have my whole life some doubts, but that I don't want to focuse on them any longer. I want to focus on positive things, also positive things about the organisation. I also told them, that I am confused. But this all didn't work to let me be. They still want an answer to above questions.

  (If possible, I don't want to be DA or DF as it would complicate my complicated life even more. It would hurt my parents, even though they would still keep contact).

  The elders give me some time to think about it. But they made it clear, that they need an answer to above questions and that this answer would determine, if I can continue to be a JW or not.

  So what is the best way to react now? (I would be happy for some advice)

  I thought of the following possibilities:

  1. LYING

  If I lie and tell them, yes, I believe the FDS. Then they would interrogate me to find out if I really mean it. Then they would try to help me spiritually that I go again in field service.

  For me, this possibility is the worst one.

  2. GIVE THEM NO ANSWER AT ALL (NO AUTHORITY FOR THEM)

  They would probably take this as my refusal of the FDS and go with DA.

  3. GIVE THEM AN ANSWER LIKE:

  "I accept and respect the governing body as a human organisation, which no doubt gives its best, to live according to (their understanding) the bible and to serve Jehovah. If the allmighty creator Jehovah and his son Jesus are directing their decisions, I can not tell, as I am just a small human being and cannot see the minds of Jehovah and Jesus."

  or I could say something like "Matthew 28:18 I accept that Jesus has been given all authority in heaven and on earth."

  How would you react? Or what other answer do you think of?

  Thank's for your help.

  Daniel
• 

  LisaRose

  I would lie, if you think you can carry it off. It's really none of their business, but since they can affect your relationship with your parents, then you have to do what it takes to get them off your back. This is an organization that has lied to you your whole life, you don't owe them the truth.

  If you don't think you can carry it off, say that you are carefully considering and praying about and will let them know when you have an answer, which we be a week from never.
• 

  LostGeneration

  Sigh. In the end this is what it comes to, especially considering your family situation. Could it be your wife has pressured them to try to get you officially DFd?

  Generally you don't want things to get this far (meeting at all with them where they can ask loyalty questions) so if you don't want to be officially outed you will have to lie. Choices 2 or 3 leave them enough rope to hang you.

  you are also correct on the first choice, they will try to force you to recant what you have said in the past, and probably force you into a study with one of them along with serve-us.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Why not lie to a group that has no legitimacy as far as you are concerned? Do a Bill Clinton and redefine words in your mind? You could style yourself as engaged in internal espionage. I don't think I could answer them.
• 

  leaving_quietly

  These guys either had a C.O. visit, or call back to HQ, or both. Those are the two statements that define a person's loyalty.

  Do you accept and believe that the faithful and discreet slave is the governing body and is directed by Jehovah?

  My answer would be: Hmm. I thought Christ was the head of the congregation? If Jehovah is directing the faithful and discreet slave, then He is taking over that which he gave to his son. (Eph 1:22)

  Do you accept the teachings that the faithful and discreet slave set up?

  My answer would be: That the faithful and discreet slave set up? Really? That's a real question? I'd have to answer, "it depends". If I research those teachings and find that they do not conflict with what the Bible teaches, then yes. However, if I find they DO conflict, then no. It's not an all yes or all no answer. I believe what the Bible teaches, and I'm sorry, brothers, but the faithful and discreet slave has changed their teachings many times.

  Sorry, I know that was snarky... Really, though, sorry for what you're going through.
• 

  leaving_quietly

  Do you accept the teachings that the faithful and discreet slave set up?

  Or I would answer: This sounds like you're trying to get me to avow my loyalty to a human organization? You wouldn't really be trying to set me up to do that, would you? My loyalty must remain with God and his Son.
• 

  DATA-DOG

  Tell them that.you did not dedicate your life to ORG ( show OD book and Bible teach quotes) and that your loyalty to men is conditional. Or tell them that you have a lot of thinking to do. Or tell that you are sure Jehovah will handle everything. Or ask them to explain how you knew the domestic and FDS or belongings nu-light BEFORE it was announced? You can act confused. Or tell them nothing. I would just act like a stupified sheep. These guy have been watching Elders videos, they will DF you simplify because they don't know what else to do.
• 

  Phizzy

  Just concentrate on the result you want out of this debacle. Most Elders are simple souls, they will not understand answers you give them that contain anything like a nuance, they do not even know what the word means.

  I was in eaxactly your position, I said that I believed everything the WT printed in their literature.

  This was a blatant lie, if you like, but what could the Elders do ? I then told them that I wanted no further contact until I was ready. They have left me alone ever since, which is several years.

  It troubled me to lie like that, but I justified it to myself by reasoning that at the time I said it, I could quite well have believed all the WT nonsense, but beliefs can change in a single second, so after saying what I did, my "belief" could evaporate.

  The funny thing, hilarious if you think about it, is that what they wanted me to profess belief in has all changed in the years since I left, if I now professed belief in that stuff they would say I am an Apostate !

  Lie as much as you need to, re-assure them you will be back with them in FS etc, as soon as you are ready, ( you never will be of course)and tell them you will call them if you need them.

  Do not give them any reason to DF or DA you, you are better than that.
• 

  StephaneLaliberte

  Hey Daniel,

  1) If you believe in God:

  Do you accept and believe that the faithful and discreet slave is the governing body and is directed by Jehovah?

  Yes, of course. Jesus said: "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst" (Matthew 18:20). I am convinced that the Jehovah's Witnesses are directed by Jehovah [as are everyonne else once in a while when he see's fit - including the evil Catholics!].

  Do you accept the teachings that the faithful and discreet slave set up?

  Of course! Enumerate some of the beliefs you have in comon.

  2) If you don't believe in God:

  Lie to them. They are there to Judge and rule over you even though you don't want to. As such, they do not deserve the truth. So tell them what they want to hear. When they offer more help, just say: I know your right, I know your right. But I need time. Be patient with me... I will call you back at the right time. And repeat that last sentance everytime they ask to meet.
• 

  The Searcher

  My reply to these questions -

  Do you accept and believe that the faithful and discreet slave is the governing body and is directed by Jehovah?

  Do you accept the teachings that the faithful and discreet slave set up?

  "Brothers, before I answer these questions, I would like to ask you if you truthfully believe every teaching of the GB, even if you found it conflicted with what the Bible teaches?".

  If they say 'No', then they've ended the discussion for you. If they say 'Yes', then ask them to tell you who was divinely inspired to resolve the circumcision issue. When they say "the Governing Body in Jerusalem", ask them if they figured that out by their own research, or did they learn it from the GB? Now ask them to open their Bibles and read out loud Galatians 2:1,2 and now tell you who was inspired to resolve the issue!!

  SECONDLY:

  Ask them to explain the Scriptural basis for the "New Scrolls" - which the GB has ordained be discussed at every Convention this year in the Sunday morning symposium. Then explain that the word 'New' does not exist in Revelation 20:12, and neither does it say that the scrolls contain "wonderful new teachings"- the verse plainly states they are used as a basis for judging. Now hammer them - tell them to read verses 1-11 and say when these scrolls will be opened - after Satan is destroyed, NOT during the 1000 year reign, as is taught by the GB!

  THIRDLY:

  Ask them if they believe that their own blood [death] washes their sins away? (based on the GB's literal interpretation of Romans 6:7)

  Reading verses 2,4,6,8,10, & 11 gives proof that Paul was speaking of a figurative 'dying' to a sinful life!

  Ask them if you should obey the Bible's teachings or men's? And remind them of the countless REVERSALS in teachings, especially in recent years. Is Jehovah behind all these REVERSALS, or is it men?????

  Best wishes, whatever you decide.