A few in military refuse to fight 'wrong war'

by Trauma_Hound 128 Replies latest members politics

  • Angharad
    Angharad

    LB

    Critising the US government does not make someone anti-US or an American basher, its just means you disagree with some of their polices. We critise our UK government all the time as do many other people its doesnt mean we hate ourselves.

    Critising the US government also does not mean that you hate the American people, Americans are great and we have many American friends.

    The incident a US customs that Simon mentioned, was intimidating and very unpleasant, maybe we were just unlucky.

    You seem to think because Simon is the forum owner that he is not entitled to express his opinion, many others here have expressed similar things and some of them american themselves.

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka

    Ang,

    People are the same with anything. Religion, abortion topics, governments. If you have a problem with ONE aspect of it, then you are

    AGAINST THEM PERSONALLY!!!

    LOL. Same old same old.

    ash

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    This war is certainly not going according to plan. Where is all the Iraq citizens cheering on their "Liberators"? Where's all the WOMD? Seems that the American administration PR isn't working. Maybe Saddam is hated by the Iraq's but the American's and British are hated even more. The Iraq's see them not as "freedom fighters" but as imperialistic, opportunistic, infidel occupiers.

    Just read this quote from a Newsweek journalist:

    "The atmosphere was tense. The U.S. strategy had been to bypass towns, engaging only major targets. That left pockets of Iraqi soldiers and militiamen scattered all along the American “wall of steel” that marched steadily northward. Meanwhile, hundreds of civilians stood silently in the mud lining the sides of the road; some were giving troops the thumbs up. The troops had been briefed that in this part of the world that was the same as giving somebody the finger. They wondered aloud if that was true."

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/889555.asp?cp1=1

    Will

  • Simon
    Simon

    Perhaps the 'surrender' thing was the wrong one to pick as it's just confused things ... the point I was making was about them being told not to fight instead of following the orders to fight (which is different to saying someone is ordered not to surrender)

    How about instead we use the thing about WoMD ... the Military has said that if they are given the order to fire them, they should refuse it as it's the right thing to do (following the order being the wrong thing)

    Does this make the argument clearer?

  • dubla
    dubla
    Where is all the Iraq citizens cheering on their "Liberators"?

    . By yesterday families with children were lining roads near the southern city of Basra, waving and cheering at U.S. and British forces as they rumbled north.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12139-2003Mar22.html

    It was a surreal way to invade a country. As a huge British convoy crossed into Iraq yesterday hundreds of children came to greet them. In the end British soldiers were greeted, not with gunfire, but with laughter and smiles.

    As the troops moved past small boys ran up to the windows, smiling and grinning. 'Hello, hello,' one shouted. A small group of teenagers sang and danced and clapped their hands.

    http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-22-2003-37839.asp

    Iraqi civilians along the roads waved white flags at journalists' cars, and some offered wide smiles and shouts of "hello!"

    Others crowded around journalists, demanding food, water and mobile telephones so they could make calls to relatives abroad.

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/orl-asecbasra23032303mar23,0,1574084.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

    Where's all the WOMD?

    weve been there for five days, give me a break.

    aa

  • dubla
    dubla
    How about instead we use the thing about WoMD ... the Military has said that if they are given the order to fire them, they should refuse it as it's the right thing to do (following the order being the wrong thing)

    Does this make the argument clearer?

    yes, much clearer, and youve proven what i was saying all along, as firing chemical/biological weapons on us would be more than just the wrong "thing to do", it would be illegal.

    aa

  • Trauma_Hound
    Trauma_Hound

    Oh really Dubla?

    http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030325.wmain0325_2/BNStory/International

    BREAKING NEWS
    Breaking International NewsUPDATED AT 9:15 AM EST Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003

    Basra now labelled 'military target'

    Globe and Mail Update

    The British military has had to rethink its strategy and is preparing to send troops into Basra to crush spirited resistance in the southern Iraqi city. Farther north, U.S. marines pushed across the Euphrates after two days of sharp fighting.

    "We're obviously assessing the situation before we commence operations to take out the non-regular militia which seems to be set to opposing our taking of the objective," said Group Captain Al Lockwood, spokesman for British forces in the Persian Gulf, discussing the Basra situation with Associated Press.

    "We need to secure the city for the inhabitants and to ensure that their basic necessities in life are taken care of, and obviously that the necessary humanitarian aid, medical facilities are restored as quickly as possible," he said.

    UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has warned of a humanitarian crisis in the city, saying that "urgent measures" had to be taken to restore electricity and water supply in the city of 1.3 million people.

    At a London press briefing, British Prime Minister Tony Blair rejected suggestions that the crisis in Basra had been caused by the war.

    "The humanitarian disaster is here and now," he said. "It's happening, it's been happening for years."

    Despite surprisingly strong resistance from Mr. Hussein's troops throughout southwestern Iraq, Pentagon officials insist that coalition troops are making "historic progress" in its war. The Pentagon had also acknowledged that roving bands of Iraqi troops, some dressed as civilians, are continuing to ambush coalition forces in areas now ostensibly under its control.

    On Tuesday, Mr. Hussein reportedly issued a call to Iraq's tribal leaders, urging them to fight the invading forces even in the absence of specific orders from Baghdad. Agence France-Presse reported that the appeal to clan chiefs was read by an announcer on Iraqi satellite television.

    "The day has come for you to assume your responsibilities — fight them with your clans and tribes," the announcer said. "If there are any among you who are still hesitant about fighting and are awaiting orders, we give all of you that order now on behalf of our religion, nation and the holy war."

    Mr. Blair told reporters that spirited resistance is to be expected.

    "[Iraq's] security apparatus exists to support the regime of Saddam Hussein. Nobody should be surprised therefore that there are parts of the armed forces determined to fight, for they know that when the regime falls, which it will, they will have nowhere to go," he said.

    "There will be resistance all the way to the end of this campaign," he said. "[But] nobody, least of all the forces loyal to Saddam, should be in any doubt that the resistance will be broken down and that the goals of the coalition forces will be met."

    Hard days lie ahead, agreed General Richard Myers, chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff. But he told ABC's Good Morning America on Tuesday that his forces are prepared. "We think the toughest fighting is ahead of us, and we have known that all along."

    U.S. forces have begun a long-awaited showdown with Mr. Hussein's elite Republican Guard as they close in on Baghdad, undeterred by ambushes, mounting casualties and defiant insistence that the Iraqi leader is still alive.

    Positioned only 80 kilometres away from the Iraqi capital, U.S. troops pounded military targets with howitzers and rockets Tuesday in an all-night artillery barrage that lit up the clouds.

    Farther south, U.S. marines finally forced their way across the Euphrates River after a fierce street battle in Nasiriyah that opened a new line of advance north toward the capital. Two days after a first bid to cross the river and the Saddam Canal was blocked by Iraqi irregulars, the marines laid down a 3.5 kilometre-wide corridor of armoured vehicles and the convoy charged through the streets under cover of helicopter rockets and a barrage of artillery, tank and heavy machinegun fire.

    Mr. Hussein on Monday made his second appearance on Iraqi television since war began, promising his people that victory against the United States and coalition invaders was near.

    "As time goes by, they will lose more and they will not be able to escape lightly from their predicament," said Mr. Hussein, dressed in a military-green uniform and looking more energetic than he did last week hours after the war began. "We will make it as painful as we can."

    He also exhorted Iraqis to rise up against U.S.-led forces: "You Iraqis are in line with what God has ordered you to do, to cut their throats."

    U.S. officials have repeatedly speculated that Mr. Hussein was injured or killed in the first strike of the campaign, and the White House immediately cast doubt on whether the new tape indicates he was unharmed, noting his speech may have been prerecorded, in spite of his allusions to the battle for the port city of Umm Qasr.

    "The review of the latest tape gives no reason for anybody to think that this is anything fresh," White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said.

    With reports from The Globe and Mail's Alan Freeman in London and Barrie McKenna in Washington

  • dubla
    dubla

    um, nice article th, i caught that news this morning.....but im not sure what it has to do with anything ive said.

    aa

  • Angharad
    Angharad

    OMG Please tell me Tony Blair isnt that dumb

    At a London press briefing, British Prime Minister Tony Blair rejected suggestions that the crisis in Basra had been caused by the war.

    "The humanitarian disaster is here and now," he said. "It's happening, it's been happening for years."

    Well I think the war may have made things a bit worse considering they had running water and electricity up until a few days ago

  • ashitaka
    ashitaka
    considering they had running water and electricity up until a few days ago

    I was thinking the same thing.

    God (or the Invisible Pink Unicorn) Bless Operation Misinformation!

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