Raising kids - JW mother, agnostic father

by Zana 67 Replies latest social family

  • Gypsy Sam
    Gypsy Sam

    Jgnat is right on queue.

    This became an exhausting and annoying issue for me as some teens wouldn't associate with others, if they had already "judged" them to be weak. (I have a 16 year old)

    For example, I had a teen (friends daughter) unwittingly comment that she wasn't comfortable at an event as some of the JW's were not good influences. I had learned TTATT yet, but was already thinking, so I asked what she meant. She commented that they weren't baptized and she was, so she needed to watch her association more. They were "too worldly". Keep in mind, these were all 13-15 year old girls. My daughter was 14 at the time and the other teen didn't realize my daughter wasn't baptized either.

    My parents were always quizzing my daughter as to if she had commented at the meeting, was she out in service Saturday, had she been "mini pioneering" during tract work...on and on.

    JW kids can almost never please their parents. I was valedectorian and pioneered straight out of high school. My parents still managed to be disappointed and wonder where they went wrong in raising me. My brother had a similar situation and married "in the truth". He's extremely active on RBC and switched halls to help a hall in need. However, he married a sister who had previously been married, which to JW parents of a virgin son, was a huge disappointment. Now she's in college, so they see her as "worldly" and since she's not pioneering that's another mark against her. (I'd say she's a liberal JW, too). It doesn't matter that the two of them are happily married and financially stable.

    edited - my daughter did go through a period where she seemed into JW world, which was great at the time. Now that we are both awake, she told me she never believed it. She just went along to make me happy and knew how disappointed in her I'd be if she didn't follow the religion.

    No child should have to feel that a parents love is conditional on a religious belief.

  • Aunt Fancy
    Aunt Fancy

    You were given a lot of great advice. I highly recommend reading Steven Hassen's books. You want to do everything in your power to keep your children from being baptized into the religion. If you ask most JW's who grew up in the religion they will tell you they did not enjoy being a JW and missing out on so many enjoyable things plus getting a good education because education is not important to JW's.

    Your wife may be staying because it is her social network. Because she is a liberal JW I am sure is not treated as well as others plus she has an unbelieving mate which adds to that. You may be able to get her out and she will thank you for that someday.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I think I suggested looking at this before:

    http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/become-jehovahs-friend/activities/

    Check out "Time to Get Ready!" and "Make Your Service Bag!".

  • Gypsy Sam
    Gypsy Sam

    Search "The Prodigal Son" dvd and you'll get a JW approved video that portrays what you're up against.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I see the video is online!

    http://www.jw.org/en/publications/videos/prodigal-son-returns/

    This "ideal family" is so...creepy! Talk about keeping it in the family!

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    There are two areas you can/should discuss with your wife. The blood doctrine and how that applies to her and your children and the Pedophile problem.

    Thousands of JW's have died rejecting blood............ far more every year then those who died at Jonestown.

    The Pedophile program is a problem (as it is in many religions) but the Jw's make it a worse problem because elders have to have two witnesses to the crime. Obviously a pedophile does not want a witness to his or her crime. The Elders do not inform the congregation that there is a pedophile in their midst.

    They have also deferred from involving the police if there is no state law mandating that they do. As a parent both issues should be discussed however you need to be well versed in the JW or rather WTBTS position.

  • lucky72
    lucky72

    I was raised by an extremely dogmatic JW mother and an agnostic father. My mom married my dad before she became a witness; she was baptized when I was two. My parents had many arguments early on, but my dad just gave up and let her do what she wanted as far as raising my brother, sister and I, although he was always very clear that he did not believe what the witnesses taught. My mom was insistent about full meeting attendance, service (often after school), and put a lot of pressure on me and my siblings to get baptized. I had many doctrinal questions as a pre-teen and teenager and spent lots of time talking to the elders (arranged by my mom). My mom seriously pressured me into getting baptized at age 16 - the peer pressure within the congregation was strong, too. I did very well in school and a major family blow-up occurred when I told my dad I was going to pioneer instead of going to college, but he backed down on that, too, and I pioneered for several years out of high school and even moved to where the need was greater. I continued to have major doubts and when the teaching on 1914 changed, that was the last straw for me, and I left. My brother and sister and mom are all still witnesses and do not talk to me, although my mom does speak to my two children. I have a good relationship with my dad.

    Here are some things I wish that my father had done differently (and he told me that he wishes he had done differently):

    • insist that we had friends and associated with kids outside of the organization
    • allow us to play sports and be involved with extracurricular activities
    • discuss doctrines. I think this would have made a big difference to me because I had so many doubts and getting a different, well thought out and reasonable perspective from my father, at a young age, would have been enormous. We did occasionally engage in debates when I was in high school, such as evolution vs. creation, but I think I was too far gone by then
    • argue with the fact that witnesses are the only ones who have the truth and that everyone else will die at armageddon. Present evidence of "goodness" in other groups. Although I had many doctrinal questions growing up, I never really questioned that all other religions were evil, so it made my other issues seem secondary. It also made me reject any argument against the witnesses (occasionally presented by my grandparents) as being "apostate". I think if these discussions had started at an early age, in conjunction with a discussion of doctrines, I would have been eagar to entertain alternatives
    • insist on college (if that's what your children want) and don't wait to have that discussion until the last minute. Deep down, I really did want to go to college out of high school and I remember wishing at the time that my dad would have insisted. I did eventually go to college during the brief change in policy in the 90's, and it helped give me the confidence to finally get out.
    • Do not underestimate the peer pressure in the congregation. Because my mom was very active and my dad was an unbeliever, we had several elders take my brother and sister and I "under their wing" and the pressure from them and their families was huge! We felt the pressure from the "good" families because we wanted to be considered "good association", and this influenced my willingness to participate in lots of witness activities enormously, especially because I had no friends outside of the organization.
    • Don't let your kids get baptized!!

    Overall, both my dad and I wish that he would not have ceded full control to my mother. As other posters have noted, this religion is not just a matter of "learning about Jesus"; it's a cult. It was very stressful for the entire family for me to leave the truth, my dad included - he's had to put up with lots and lots of heartache from my mom over the situation, as well as dealing with difficulties over visiting arrangements, talking to his grandchildren, etc. (all of it initiated by my mom, not me). I think in retrospect, even my mom wishes I had not gotten baptized, because then she'd still be able to talk to me. She has extremely mixed feelings about the fact that I felt pressured to get baptized and I know she struggles enormously with how things have turned out (my mom and my aunt are super close and my aunt is not a witness, so I hear my mom's thoughts via my aunt). Also - I'm not disfellowshipped. My mom and I maintained a relationship for several years after my leaving the organization and marrying an unbeliever. When I told her, after having children, that we were celebrating Christmas as a family, she decided after LENGTHY discussion with the elders, to treat me as disassociated, and my brother and sister followed suit, even though no official action was ever taken in the congregation and I had moved across the country and not associated with the witnesses for 10+ years at that point.

  • cultBgone
    cultBgone

    Lucky, thank you for such a well thought-out post. So happy that you raised your own family in freedom!

    (((hugs)))

  • Gypsy Sam
    Gypsy Sam

    Lucky72, I see you don't post often, but when you do it belongs on the BEST OF!! Wow! One of the most practical, realistic posts I've ever read about growing up in a divided home. Congrats on getting out.

    Realities of growing up in a divided home :(

  • Zana
    Zana

    Childhood milestones:

    • First comment at the meeting
    • First public talk
    • Dress-up in meeting clothes, first briefcase
    • First field service
    • Baptism

    Ok, interesting. Well, our 3-year-old has been dressed-up already with clothes some JW-friends gave him as a present. Kind of cute and kind of scary at the same time. I will have to think about my position on field service, once my wife picks that up on a regular basis again. Although I believe I will have quite some advantage there, because I will be able to offer a lot more fun stuff to do with my kids when planning on how to spend saturday morning.

    Baptism is big of course. I plan on setting the rule that they can decide about that not before their 18th birthday. What opposition will I face here? When somebody pressures them they can always blame me and my rule.

    And thanks, jgnat, for the links!

    There are two areas you can/should discuss with your wife. The blood doctrine and how that applies to her and your children and the Pedophile problem.

    I've done a lot of research on the blood doctrine. Although I couldn't convince my wife to not carry the blood paper thing around, I at least made her accept all the blood fracture stuff and use of blood saving methods. And I made myself very clear that our children will always be allowed to accept blood transfusions no matter what.

    On the pedophile subject I haven't really gotten to her. When talking about things like that (strange JW rules/interpretations or any flip-flopping doctrine), she blames humans to be imperfect, even if they are elders or GB. There is bad people everywhere.

    Now, lucky72's list (thanks, great post!):

    • insist that we had friends and associated with kids outside of the organization

    Check. Also my wife is ok with this.

    • allow us to play sports and be involved with extracurricular activities

    Check. Also my wife is ok with this.

    • discuss doctrines. I think this would have made a big difference to me because I had so many doubts and getting a different, well thought out and reasonable perspective from my father, at a young age, would have been enormous. We did occasionally engage in debates when I was in high school, such as evolution vs. creation, but I think I was too far gone by then

    Ok. Will keep this in mind.

    • argue with the fact that witnesses are the only ones who have the truth and that everyone else will die at armageddon. Present evidence of "goodness" in other groups. Although I had many doctrinal questions growing up, I never really questioned that all other religions were evil, so it made my other issues seem secondary. It also made me reject any argument against the witnesses (occasionally presented by my grandparents) as being "apostate". I think if these discussions had started at an early age, in conjunction with a discussion of doctrines, I would have been eagar to entertain alternatives

    Ok. Shouldn't be a problem. My wife does see goodness in other groups already, so no opposition there.

    • insist on college (if that's what your children want) and don't wait to have that discussion until the last minute. Deep down, I really did want to go to college out of high school and I remember wishing at the time that my dad would have insisted. I did eventually go to college during the brief change in policy in the 90's, and it helped give me the confidence to finally get out.

    Check. Also my wife is ok with this.

    • Do not underestimate the peer pressure in the congregation. Because my mom was very active and my dad was an unbeliever, we had several elders take my brother and sister and I "under their wing" and the pressure from them and their families was huge! We felt the pressure from the "good" families because we wanted to be considered "good association", and this influenced my willingness to participate in lots of witness activities enormously, especially because I had no friends outside of the organization.

    Ok, haven't thought about that very much. Thanks for pointing it out!

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