Raising kids - JW mother, agnostic father

by Zana 67 Replies latest social family

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  Zana

  Hello everybody,

  My wife and I have two wonderful children aged 1 and 3. I was raised as a Lutheran but stopped believing in my late teen years. My wife is what I would call a liberal JW (yes, I believe such people exist ) Her personal relationship to Jehovah is very important to her, but WT activities are not the top priority in her life, her family is. She maintains good and healthy relationships with people of different faiths and knows that there are good and bad people everywhere, no matter if they are JWs or not (so do I). She goes to KH an sundays (sometimes I accompany her), but hardly does door-to-door preaching and her last assembly participation is a few years back. We don't celebrate christmas at home, but we do at my parents place (with my wife, too). We don't do individual birthday parties except for some delicious cake, but in order to compensate we invented some kind of "family birthday" with presents and all for everybody.

  Sooner or later our children will have questions about religion and the differences Mom and Dad show towards it. Me being an agnostic I cannot offer them a different version of belief or God such as going to church with them instead of KH. So I guess my wife will kind of be the "expert" on that topic for them. I can only encourage them to be open for different beliefs and learn critical thinking. But I am a little afraid that the WTS has probably perfected their approach to children ("Caleb" for example) and how to indoctrinate them. And of course my wife would love to see them becoming JWs one day. I have nothing against a general christian education. There are good stories to be read and good morals can be learned from the bible. But let's say from what I have learned about JWs, they should talk less about Armageddon and obedience and maybe more about Jesus and "love thy neighbor" for example.

  So, why am I here? I want my children to be happy! But I understand that being raised in a JW or in a "divided" home can put some serious obstacles on their road to happiness. Where should I be especially careful when letting them be in contact with other JWs? What publications and religious topics will need my special attention in order to be able to offer a different view and counterbalance a possible indoctrination process? Anything else that comes to mind reading my story?
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  Frazzled UBM

  Hi Zana - I have been through this with my wife already but I had to learn the hard way. You should be more than a little worried about how well perfected the JW approach to indoctrination of children is. You should be very worried. In the West the Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society sees the children of existing Witnesses as the main recruiting ground as they have little success in getting outsiders to accept their tired old discredited message. So they put a lot of pressure of JW parents to get their chidlren baptized (the principle tactic they use is fear - if your kids don't ge baptized then Jehovah will destroy them at Armageddon - he is not sentimental - nice image of a loving Creator but hat is a separate issue) and then they have a lot fo material for children which uses fear to get kids to believe.

  The My Bible Studies book is the first step in thi8s process - it uses all the scariest stories fromt eh Old Testament, has lots of graphic pictures and the main theme is that if you are not loyal and obedient to the big J he will do very bad things to you and if you are he will protect you from the bad things he does to others, whgo deserve ti because they are wicked by not being lowyal and obedient. I strongly recommend that you get a copy of this book and read it. It is not suitable for chilren and telling chilren is facutal accurate and true is a form of child abuse in my mind. It generates p[hobias that can only be allayed by being protected by being within the safety of the organisation and accepting the Truth without question.

  There are a number of UBMs who made the mistake of taking a relaxed approach to the JW parent giving their kids religious instruction and attending the KH and then finding out the child was getting baptized without thier consent. Once baptized the child is part of the cult and subject to sever sanctions if they want out. never a jw can relate his exerpeince regarding his daughter.

  Do not misunderstand your wife's stance. She may not be an obvious zealot but if she attends the KH most Sundays she is part of the cult and gets weekly doses of propaganda, including regading the critical importance of giving the children a spiritual upbringing (indoctrinating them).

  I have a zero tolerance attitude to my wife exposing my son to WBTS propaganda or taking him to the KH - it was a tough battle to get her to accept this and getting my son to see the problems such that he refuses to go with her (he was releived when I told him that the Bible Stories were exactly that, just stories and were nto real and that he should ignore the Spartlock DVD my wfie had shown him without my knowledge) was very important in the process.

  The other thing that has helped is showing my wife how much we love her as compared to the treatment she gets at the KH such that her attendance has really gone down. You will need to build her trust over time by showing her your love so that she can let go of her phobia that you and your kids will die at Armageddon if you are not baptized.

  Good luck and PM me if you have any questions

  Your fellow UBM Fraz
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  KateWild

  Hey Zana,

  Welcome to the board. I would agree that most JWs who marry a non-JW are liberal, if they were strict they would remain single or marry only a JW.

  I would advise you, while your kids are so young to learn as much as you can about the doctrines your wife is learning at the KH, and as much as you can about the history of the WT and Jehovah's witnesses. It is a damaging cult and the more you know the better you can teach your kids to think critically even from a young age. jwfacts.com is a good website. Also read their litterature and anything that seems far fetched, take to your wife and tell her how you feel.

  The Caleb and Sparlock DVD is and example of indoctrination with black and white thinking. A balanced parent could say to a child..." Do you really think it's okay to throw away gifts from your friends?, How would you feel if your friend threw away a gift that you gave to them? Does God really want you to throw away magic toys"

  I would say to preserve your marriage you need to tell your wife how you feel about a particular doctrine before you take it to your child. You might in fact help her break free from the cult, ot you might find out she is only a JW by name to preserve family ties.

  Kate xx
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  Heaven

  Welcome to JWN Zana! I was raised in a divided home. My Mom was more interested in the JW stuff than my Dad when I was little. He had to tell her that her place was at home with the kids. He curbed her JW activities. I feel this helped keep the extremism at bay. My Dad got sucked into the cancer much later - well after we had grown up and left home and he had retired.

  We had similar traditions like the ones you've mentioned. We continued to celebrate birthdays but not in a big way. Our parents still bought us presents but we wouldn't have any party. Mom would bake a cake but there were no candles. We used to celebrate everything when we were little but as we got older and Mom studied more the 'holidays' slowly vanished. Hallowe'en was the first to go. She used the excuse that bad people were poisoning the candy. We continued with 'Christmas' but celebrated it on a day that was not Dec 25th and called it "Gift Exchange". Eventually this also died out. We always got together and had a big turkey dinner at Thanksgiving. Valentine's Day and Easter were abolished.

  If you want your kids to be happy, you and your wife need to come to an agreement on 'balance'. Ensure you and your wife remain 'moderate'. Your wife may experience some pressure/oppression from the other members of her congregation if she continues to be a 'weak Witness'. I think it is good to have your own personal family traditions and celebrations. This scripture may help you with that:

  Colossians 2:16: "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day." -- New International Version (NIV).

  One of the things my Mom did was curb a lot of our activities. I don't think this is wise. I chose not to have children due to the fear instilled in me regarding the No Blood Policy and Armageddon.

  Ensure your kids are not exposed too much to the craziness of this group. I'd definitely cut back on their attendance at meetings and reading any of the literature (aka litera-trash).

  Teach your children critical thinking skills. And NEVER, EVER let them get baptized.

  Edited to add: Encourage them to go to College or University. Let them get their education.
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  cultBgone

  Zana, welcome!

  Even though your wife is a jw, you don't want your children to learn anything from these folks. It seems a common belief for non-believing parents in religiously-divided families to feel that the religous parent can provide a balanced view of the bible, and with some religions that may be true. Most major religions might be able to focus on Jesus and "love thy neighbor" for example.

  Not the jws. They long ago left Jesus in the dust, and their idea of loving their neighbor is to get them to join the cult. They actually discourage members from assisting charities and disaster relief (unless it's to help jws only). They discourage ANY association with those who are not jw and label them in a negative sense, calling them "worldly". That's negative because they teach that "Satan is the ruler of the world!" and that anyone who is not a baptized jw is worldly and under satanic control. So kids aren't supposed to hang out with schoolmates or non-jw relatives because they might get drawn into satan's world and leave the "loving protection of god's earthly organization."

  Your children will not learn nice bible stories or morals inside the kh. What they will learn is to label and look down upon everyone who is not a jw. They will learn that their obedience belongs not to their mom and dad but to the "governing body" of jws. They will learn distorted views of the world and its residents. There is no "all religions have good in them" thought in jw-land. They will learn that anyone who was a jw but decides to leave is to be labeled "apostate" and to be shunned forever. Even though your wife may be somewhat liberal, this is what is being taught continually at her kh. There is no deviation or personal opinion inside.

  Imagine the possiblity of a future where your child has become a baptized jw and is very active. The child may take a stricter approach than mom and feel that they cannot go to your parents house for xmas any more. How would that make you feel? What would that do to your family? It can happen because children raised as jws sometimes take a stronger stand than the parents.

  This is not just another religion. This is a highly-structured and tightly-run cult. Once you are in, it is extremely difficult to get out. You are told what to think, what to believe, how to dress, what activities you may openly enjoy, what movies you should (not) watch, and that all other religions are satan's and they will be destroyed (but not the jws, haha, they will watch the bloody horrific destruction and then get the earth all to themselves). You are also taught that god hates anyone who is not heterosexual. The only love they teach is conditional love. If you fall out of line with the jw teachings because they don't match what Jesus taught, for example, you will be cast aside. You are only allowed to believe specifically what their publications say. They say that other religions pick out scriptures to support their beliefs, yet the jws make up their own bible which twists the scriptures to make them support jw teachings. All other bibles are bad and you are not to bring one to the kh.

  There's no universal rule that children need to attend a church. I'm certain that you are 100% qualified to teach them about love and respect, treating others with kindness, and learning unconditional love. You don't need a bible for that. You are the person best qualified to train them as you've seen both sides of the argument. Please, please don't allow them to learn anything from the wts. You and your children are probably treated kindly as the jws want you all to join. Please don't allow your children to attend meetings! They will be much, much better off going to the park with dad.

  I so wish I had known how bizarre this religion cult was before I encouraged my own children to be raised as jws. It seemed harmless enough back then, because I thought my children needed a religion too. Now I have one adult child who believes the jws are more important than family. Don't let it happen to your precious little ones. Don't let it happen to you. There will be less trauma for them if they stay away. If you allow them to go and be indoctrinated, you will suffer heartache the remainder of your life.
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  clarity

  CultBgone... a lot of wisdom in your words CB,

  excellent advice! Thanks for writing it.

  It is a keeper .

  clarity
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  Frazzled UBM

  Zana - Listen to CultBgone about the dangers of this cult. There are many ex-JWs on this site who regret allowing their kids to be brough up in "The Truth" (i.e. the cult - the fact that they refer to themsleves as "The Truth speaks volumes about them being a cult). Your first priority is to protect your kids - if they get baptized their lives will be messed up and they may well end up being lost to you. I do not think it is wise for you to attend the KH with your kids. This sends them the message that you approve of what is said there. You need to make your reservatiuons known to your wfie and your kids. You have some tough times ahead with your wife but as long as she knows you value her and yoru family above everything, you should be okay. Fraz
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  LisaRose

  It's a landmine of potential problems, but I guess you know that. Your wife may be liberal, but that doesn't mean that your children will be. They see one thing in action, but what the Literature and meetings are saying is completely different. Your children could quite likely reject it completely, or they could go the other way. The Watchtower is very clear that only strict obedience to their requirements of meetings, service and so on will protect you at the big A. Your children could become fearful and think they need to be uber JWs to avoid destruction. Look carefully at the "my book of bible stories" that your wife will be reading to them. It shows God destroying people in a violent way because they were not JWs. It's entirely inappropriate for young children.

  As they get older, be sure that you are there to balance out the brainwashing that is going on at the hall. The pages of the Watchtower are carefully written to reinforce their core beliefs that you must obey, obey, obey the Governing Body. It's a cult. You may or may not be successful in counteracting this, it's hard to say. Your wife could also become more strict now that she has children she may think she needs to protect them by becoming a better JW, that is quite common.

  You need to read up on cults and how they affect people. Read "combating cult mind Control" and Crisis on Conscience".

  Lisa
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  jgnat

  To be forewarned is to be forearmed. Here's an example of the materials being produced for children. See if you have any protest with them:

  http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/

  People with your background tend to underestimate the power that religion has over its' members. We're talking about much more powerful forces than peer pressure at the golf and country club. Coersion runs deep in this organization.

  At the same time, you must approach gently in order not to disturb her peace. A frightened cultist digs in deep.

  The best gift you can give your children is to teach them to think and question. You do this by asking age-appropriate questions yourself, and honoring their responses. This is to counteract the WT teaching where they are told there is only one right thought, only one right answer.

  As an aside, I am a mother and grandmother. I was not able to protect my children from all pain. But they are confident, independent, and capable adults, resilient, and able to handle all that life throws their way. Resiliency and independence might be a more achievable goal than happiness.

  http://psychcentral.com/lib/10-tips-for-raising-resilient-kids/00017272
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  garyneal

  Well, it looks like you got a lot of advice. All I can add is raising kids in this environment is tough. Right now your wife might be a liberal witness but if she longs to have the family that goes to the hall together she may change. That happened to me and I can tell you that it was not pretty.

  As a former cultist, myself, I can relate. I used to also be subjected to the black and white thinking that comes from the more fundamentalist type churches and I use to dream of having the 'perfect Christian family.' I no longer qualify for that now as my beliefs have changed dramatically and don't fit in with the traditional Christian mold anymore. I guess, like you, I am more agnostic now.

  Your wife may go back and forth between wanting to be balanced and wanting to drag he kids to every meeting because it is best for their 'spiritual health.' For me, it is sad to watch my wife not trust her own thinking when it comes to her battle between what she really wants to do and what she is 'supposed' to do. I try to give my kids a variety of experiences, teach about a variety of beliefs, and challenge dogmatic thinking (like Super Why being magical and wrong). As a former fundy cultist I am all too familiar with this type of idiotic thinking.