IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW? (page 71)

cofty

Creatures decided for themselves to grow eyes? How did they decide that? Decide it with what? But if they had brains enough for that task, are you sure they'd have enough grey cells to design the thing AND wire it all up right? What did they study to help draw up their plan? How could they know there was anything to see anyway? And, why are monkeys still here, not evolving into men like my clever uncle Marv?

Joojoobean - Either you are ignorant of the facts about evolution to a degree that defies belief, or that was satirical, in which case you are a genius.

When I first joined this forum I have to admit your statement would have made a lot of sense to me.......I made everything fit into my belief in God. I searched for information that supported my belief.

But that was not being honest with myself, and I began to learn that after a while. So, I started to read books that didn't support my belief, I figured, God is real so in the end anything they say can be disproved by other information that I read. And that is when the lightbulb went on, or at least began to show some glimmer of light. Since then, the questions have never stopped.

If you are interested, here are some links that might start you asking questions joofoobeans....maybe you are right, maybe there is a designer. From what I can see that has never been disproved. But maybe, in your search you might find things aren't as black and white as they appear. And that's when it gets interesting....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_eye

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/01/1/l_011_01.html

still thinking

soft+gentle....*come in close, I have to say this quietly*

References to Wisdom are found in Proverbs. In fact, when you read Gnostic texts Wisdom is written about in the same way. Wisdom is the feminine. To me, Proverbs 1 almost seems like it has been taken directly from the Gnostics beliefs.

http://bible.cc/proverbs/1-20.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(wisdom)

*move along...no one is quoting the bible.........lol*

still thinking

ohiocowboy...I feel much the same way...but like to explore. Who knows, maybe something will just click with me and I will have that hmmmmm moment that Flying high is referring to....I used to have them when I believed.

When I had a strong belief in God I found everything in nature beautiful and was humbled and grateful for what god had created. Now that I have little faith I still find nature beautiful and am humbled and grateful to be alive.

still thinking

But if someone is asking me a question that I have already asked myself, and searched and searched for the answer to as well,

then the fact that my answer comes quickly is not a sign that I refuse to self-examine. Perhaps just a sign that I already have done so,

and that I know myself enough to answer at once. tec

This is true...up to a point.

I agree, it is not a sign that you refuse to self examine.....but none of us has all the correct answers so what we say can, and I believe should, always be self examined. A conclusion we come to today can be completely turned on its head tomorrow. My comment wasn't specifically aimed at you either tec...just in reply to your comment.

Maybe I do this too much...I've almost got to the point where I enjoy proving myself wrong....LOL

thetrueone

If gods or a god were singularly derived from expressions of human ignorance, then the only thing one could possibly ascertain is that human

ignorance is real, is that debatable ?

A god might have made all thats is made up in the universe, that doesn't mean that this god cares what happens to humans

or any other animals species on the planet for that matter.

Mankind's survival and existence might very well be solely in are own hands, so far this has proven to be a valuable venture for

mankind to perceive life in this manner, instead of dealing or making relationships with the gods.

ziddina

Boo!

snare&racket

Flying high you are asking fantastic questions!

We have most of the answers, it's all very very simple. Just go read xxxx

Emotions, music, love , family connection, lust, etc it is allll explained via neurology, endocrinology and psychology.

As for the old Christian "hormones could not evolve..." this was dealt with via lab evidence in the 60s ! Check out a recent discussion on it with good old PZ Myers.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/07/evolution_of_hormone_signaling.php

P.s. a doctor once said hormones could not evolve to me and my class, I took him all the papers that explained the whole process, it was ver simple (basic affinity of early ligands for receptors) he didn't thank me, didn't ask or the papers or an explanation.. He totally dismissed me. He was an evangelical.The guy is no longer teaching!

Snare x

still thinking

soft+gentle....as ususal...the re reading of your post was necessary for me...LOL...I do enjoy that about your posts.

And I still come up with different conclusions to what you are saying everytime I read it....

can you clarify this for me? The bolded part please.

What I get from how christians describe God, God after JW Jehovah that is, he/she/it seems to be like the eye of a hurrincane - a small place of calm surrounded by turbulence. The calm is formed from turbulence and moves with the storm. So to me the small quivering I formed from this is no unified identity based on rationalism that results in an I.

I think I am understanding what you mean here, but everytime I try to put it into words it just comes out wrong.

still thinking

Andrew Sh....I think maybe you missed my original post, which isn't hard when a thread gets this long.

I asked that the bible was not used for 2 reasons.

1/ The question was open to believers of all faiths not just christianity. So it was a general question. Not all understandings involve the bible.

2/ When the bible is brought into the dicussion, the original question is lost and the focus becomes proving or disproving the bible. There are plenty of topics on that. And again, that would limit the discussion to christians, excluding other beliefs.

I read your suggested quote...thanks. And have come back to the same conclusion. Other holy books also point to their god being real. I am looking for experience of personal understanding and knowing.

I assume that the bible and what it says is enough for you...and you get the confirmation you require to believe in God. So I suppose you have answered the question to your understanding of how you know.

Thank you.

IS GOD REAL? HOW DO YOU KNOW?

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