To garyneal and Others, Evidence that the anointed remnants represented by the GB were selected in 1919.

by mankkeli 152 Replies latest jw experiences

  • HintOfLime
    HintOfLime
    1 st Evidence: The release of loyal Jews from exile, made possible by the fall of Babylon, foreshadowed the release in 1919 of anointed Christians from spiritual exile.

    This is not evidence, this is a claim. You claim that the release 'foreshadowed something in 1919'. The bible does not say anything of the sort.

    Definitely Not evidence.

    2 nd Evidence: That year marked the beginning of the period when the anointed remnants were released from a form of spiritual captivity to the ideas and practices of false religion.

    Well, for one, you're not even using reaonable terms here. "anointed remnants', 'spirtiual captivity'... are you on drugs or something? What the hell are you talking about?

    It's cult speak, it's stupid, it's not something that happened in the "real world" - and it's not evidence.

    Although having rejected such false teachings as the Trinity and the immortal soul, they were still tainted by Babylonish practices. Many had developed a self-righteous attitude in character development. Some were exalting creatures, indulging in a personality cult that focused on Charles T. Russell, the first president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society.

    "tainted by Baylonish practices" Seriously, who talks like this? What the hell are you talking about? If we're talking "evidence" as if this is "real world stuff" - then use "real world" phrases and terminologies.

    So to translate, what I think he's trying to say is:

    "Having interpretted the bible differently than other groups, the Bible Students did not follow the same biblical interpretation and religious doctrine of modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses. Many were self righteous. Some engaged in practices the bible condones, such as idolitry. The religion was a cult, following the teachings of Charles T. Russell".

    This is not evidence of anything besides decpetion. Just using flowery words to white-wash history.

    Without any Biblical basis, they were observing birthdays and Christmas. The cross was still prominent in their thinking. Some even wore a cross-and-crown lapel emblem, while others sought the respectability accorded Christendom. Then, in 1917, shortly after the death of Russell, a significant change began to take place.

    Without any Biblical basis, JW's still engage in dozens of human customs even today. Elimination of human customs does not prove anything regarding the GB being 'selected in 1919'.

    Not Evidence.

    In May 1918, warrants were issued for the arrest of J. F. Rutherford, the new president of the Watch Tower Society, and seven other Watch Tower associates.

    Thousands of warrents are issued every day. Millions over the course of a year.

    Not Evidence.

    In June, with surprising swiftness, these Christian men were haled before a court and condemned. Seven were sentenced to 20 years in a penitentiary, and one to 10 years.

    "Sh*t happens." Not evidence that they were "selected by god in 1919". (Or else, every religious leader harrassed/arrested in that same time - a time when the world was in relgious and political termoil - was as well.)

    Religious leaders have been harrassed by other religions since the beginning of time. Not evidence.

    Then, in 1919, an unexpected reversal of events occurred. The Great War had ended in November 1918. The sentences against the officials of the Watch Tower Society were appealed as being a miscarriage of justice. To the chagrin of their religious enemies, Rutherford and his companions were released from prison.

    JW's leaders were not the first to be imprisoned on false charges and later released, and they will not be the last.

    I mean, really, is this the meat of the post right here? That they were arrested and later released? That proves god 'selected' them?

    Is that your claim?

    On their release from prison in 1919, Rutherford and his associates returned to the Brooklyn headquarters of the Watch Tower Society.

    If they had opened the Watchtower Glee Club - would that make them 'chosen by god' to sing?

    Not evidence.

    They then set about reorganizing for the biggest Kingdom-preaching campaign the world has ever known.

    That claim seems unlikely - there are certainly plenty examples of other conversion campaigns that have met with far greater success.

    At any rate, conversion campaigns - even highly motivated ones - are extremely common among religions, and thus...

    are not evidence.

    The Bible Students had broken the shackles of the fear of man and now saw clearly where they stood in relation to all false religion. Babylon the Great was their relentless enemy and would have to be exposed as fallen. True worship would have to be restored among the nations.

    Back to the crazy cult speak. "shackles of the fear of man"? "all false religion" (aka everyone else that doesn't agree with them).. "Babylon the Great" "exposed as fallen"...

    What the hell are you talking about?

    False religion fell? In what universe are you talking about?

    Reality check: Religion in the world today is Alive and Well. Nothing "fell", except in the wacky spin the WT tries to put on things.

    Crazy talk, and not evidence.

    Indeed, the facts show that anointed Christians began to enjoy in the year 1919. What accounts for this spiritual paradise? First of all, these paradisaic
    conditions exist among Jehovah’s people because God has restored his anointed servants to their “land,” or condition, of pure worship.

    No, they don't.

    Just because a relgion goes through a brief period of opposition (which - get real, nearly every single religion has, since religion is little more than an extension of tribal human behaviors that date back to our roots), does not make them 'the chosen people'. It's so common in human history it is laughable.

    The reality is, religions are competing with eachother for control over human populations.. some are big, some are small, and some use their authority to keep the smaller groups from growing.

    Sorry, you fail, sir. You failed to provide any actual evidence for... well... anything. You just told another story of a budding relgious group with a 'rocky start' married with conclusions that do not logically follow.

    I will be back to clarify the long held confusion on the 1914 generation that won't pass away.

    Heh... I can hardly wait. Be sure to include the scriptures that specifically mention 1914, or at least the scriptures that describe how to do the math.. (which numbers to add together to arrive at that date, etc.)

    - Lime

  • mankkeli
    mankkeli

    Hoffnung - That was an error, It has been corrected, It was meant to be 1920.

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    No, Mankkeli, now your reaching. There's nothing in Revelation that talks of the beast's representative. And Rev. 21:18, 19 warns that if you add or take away from this scroll, it's plaques will be visited upon you, so beware. Just to finalize the point. If the prophecy (Rev. 11) was not fulfilled in 1919, then it must have a future fulfillment. I can see trouble looming for the Witnesses. So, it seems, the UN, who knows JWs quite well after the NGO debacle, will at some future date kill off the two witnesses, leaving JWs leaderless, thus killing off the preaching work. And that same message is spelt out in Ezek. (38, 39), Dan. (11:41, 45; 12:7), as well Zech. (13:8-14:2). The clouds are darkening. Who will sound the warning?

  • Hoffnung
    Hoffnung

    if you like to go down this road, please provide a scripture that positively identifies Rutherford as one of the 2 servants.

    Please note that Russel already was the Laodicean (7th) messenger according to the Finished mystery. So Rutherford cannot be that one.

    Isaiah 41 has nothing to do with the identification of the 2 witnesses. You cannot just pull scriptures out of their context and apply them as you like. There are many places in the bible where 2 groups are mentioned, but that does not prove they have another application in the 20th century.

    Hoffnung

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    The two witnesses according to John and NOT the WT:

    Revelation 11
    The Two Witnesses

    1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, “Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. 2 Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. 3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. 6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.

    7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

    11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14 The second woe is past; behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

  • mankkeli
    mankkeli

    vidqun- The attack by Satan and his horde on Jehovah’s servants will be the final insult. Jehovah foretold through Zechariah: “He that is touching you is touching my eyeball.” (Zechariah 2:8) It is as if someone were thrusting a finger in Jehovah’s eyeball. He will respond immediately and eliminate the perpetrators. Jehovah’s servants are the most loving, united, peaceful, law-abiding people on earth. So that attack against them will be totally unwarranted, unjust. The great “lover of justice” will not tolerate it. His acting in their behalf will result in the eternal destruction of the enemies of his people, in the triumph of justice, and in the salvation of those who worship the only true God. What amazing, thrilling events are immediately ahead of us!—Proverbs 2:21, 22.

  • mind blown
    mind blown

    Get with the GB program Mankkeli. You're not up on your "new light"! Haven't you heard? THERE IS NO " LITERAL" REMNENTS ON EARTH according to the WTS attorney! So your point is a mute case. PERIOD.

  • Stealth
    Stealth

    Mankkeli sure isn't no rocket surgeon, must have got his PHD from the internet.

    It sounds like the GB is vetting you for a position on the writing committee.

    Keep up the good work, you are showing just how crazy JW doctrine is. If you call what you have served up 'Evidence', I can understand why JW's should never participate in a jury trial.

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Mankkeli, here's a bone for you to chew on. The apostle Peter would establish an important principle: “For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God” (cf. 1 Pet. 4:17a). Early in Jesus’ earthly ministry, he, as Jehovah’s representative, would cleanse the temple precinct of traders and their animals (cf. John 2:13-17). This he would repeat at the conclusion of his ministry (cf. Matt. 21:12, 13; Mark 11:15-17; Luke 19:45, 46). After Jesus’ coronation as King of the Messianic kingdom, Jehovah would inspect His spiritual temple (cf. Dan. 11:35; Mal. 3:1-3). Logically, this will be repeated before Jehovah’s final judgement against the nations takes place. What will Jehovah find when he inspects His temple?

  • bohm
    bohm

    as a public service i will crapfloat this thread with the lolrus:

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