Why do you have to pray to God to beable to understand the Bible? (page 2)

Number1Anarchist

wtwizard i can totally agree i think if you are indoctrinated into whatever church you have an understanding of god that becomes set in stone and after that point overlook everything the God of the bible does in certain situations. alot of things mentioned in the bible like the flood for example makes no sense. why would God flood the world knowing it would just become wicked again down the road. So basically God drowned everyone but Noah and his family. If you really start to do an investigation into the bible being the word of God it starts to fall apart, atleast that's what i'm seeing. Thx

abbagail The name Peter means rock so i think you have misunderstood the beginning because i'm not argueing about the beginning. Look at some translations of the bible and all them seem to agree that Peter is the rock that Jesus is speaking of. Peter is the rock because he is the Person Jesus is using to establish his Church. He said on this Rock referring to Peter. Look into that one some more because i think all the translations i have read have said Peter is the rock and his name means rock. So if you say the it is the Church you need to explain in more detail what that means. The definition of church can be a building or a Congregation of believers so what exactly is this supposed to mean. As i explained before Jesus also said that Wolves would enter his Congragation to the point of being its spiritual leaders. Look throughout history and even now all the spirtual leaders getting thereselves involved with Killing, homosexuality, politics, stealing money or whatever else you can think of. so your telling me that even though you have this the believers won't have there faith destroyed in the resurrection. The Church Jesus established has been destroyed because there is no church on the planet that is a true worshiper and teaches truth.

Snowbird i see you agree with abbagail please explain in more detail why you believe it is the Church. the Church that Jesus established nolonger exists. Who teaches what Jesus taught without all the nonsense. Not one. I think i prayed alot when i was a Witness and prayed for truth and guess what i got. I got stuck in the Watchtower until i figured it out on my own. Why wouldn't this loving God just direct everyone to him if they were sincere. But he reads the heart so my heart must be wicked because he does not lead me to the truth. I think alot of it has to do with blind faith something i learned through the Watchtower i cannot do anymore.

Witness007 lol Ya i bet when they read it they said to themselves this guy must be posessed by satan to write a book so full of nonsense and we must stone him for writing such a crazy book. Revelation is one book that nobody understands but they sure love to interpret it. The Churches love Revelation, it keeps those followers right in line and scares the shit out of em.

BurnTheShips

What do you see it as.

Jesus founded the Church on earth upon the twelve apostles including Peter. Peter had a special role among them, as the rest of the chapter bears out. Peter's name was originally Simon, Jesus renamed him Cephas, which means rock. He was to have a special role after Christ's passing.

We all know the Church itself has been overpowered even Jesus said somewhere that wolves would enter the congregation. so if wolves enter your congregation wouldn't that conquer it?

The Church has never been overpowered. It has been attacked from within and from without, but it remains still to this day. The light shines in the darkness but the darkness cannot overcome it.

Matthew 28:20: And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

Why would you have to pray for understanding of a book written 2000+ years ago for people who had no education?

Because the spirtual realities and truths it contains are timeless.

BTS

snowbird

Snowbird i see you agree with abbagail please explain in more detail why you believe it is the Church. the Church that Jesus established nolonger exists.

I believe Jesus is the Rock, the Cornerstone, on which His church is built. I know the official position of the RC Church is that Peter is that Rock, but I believe Peter is awaiting his release from the gates of Hell along with all others.

"Church" simply means people who are called out or set apart from the world.

This church has existed since Jesus first called it out because there are and have always been those who cling to His teachings.

At times it may not seem like it, but they are out there.

Peace to you.

Sylvia

BurnTheShips

I believe Jesus is the Rock, the Cornerstone, on which His church is built.

Well yes he is, and the Bible says he is also a Shepherd, as well as the Lamb. This does not mean that other Christians are not shepherds also. Besides, Scripture uses different "rock" metaphors. God is the "rock" of our salvation (Psalms 62:2). Abraham is the "rock" from which the Jewish people were hewn (Isaiah 51). Peter is the "rock" on which the Church is built (Matthew 16:18). To argue that "Peter can't be the rock because Jesus is the rock" makes no more sense than to argue "God can't be the rock because Abraham is the rock." Or the "Apostles can't be shepherds because Jesus is the shepherd." They are different metaphors. Peter's being the "rock" on which the Church is built does not detract from Jesus being the "rock" of our salvation. What's amazing to me is that Jesus changes Simon's name to "Rock" and then in the same sentence says "upon this Rock I will build my Church", and someone will argue that Simon "the Rock" is not the Rock.

Ephesians 2:19-20: Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

Peter is awaiting his release from the gates of Hell along with all others.

I believe Peter is in heaven with Christ.

Pax

BTS

Number1Anarchist

My point is being answered BurnTheShips and snowbird don't agree and both are Chiristians? you both read the same scripture and get 2 or more meanings out of it. how can a book do that. The only book on the planet that people can read and not see it the same. what kind of evil book is this? lol

Ok so people have always clinged to his teaching but they also are clinging to man made nonsense at the same time. I guess it is something i will never understand but my point is proven that you both read the same scripture and interpret it differently. To Mention Peter and everybody else are behind the gates of hell or in heaven is all speculation and neither have a clue where they are. That's another problem of mine is baseless arguements. You can't prove it so why say it.

snowbird

Number 1, that is why discussion is so vital, and that is why high-control groups frown on open discussion. We all can bring something to the table, and if that can be accomplished without hurt feelings or insults, then sixpence none the richer.

Burn and I both believe that Jesus is the Messiah and the Savior. Neither what he or I believe about the Rock detracts from that. Unity doesn't necessarily mean conformity.

Again, peace to you.

Sylvia

BurnTheShips

Burn and I both believe that Jesus is the Messiah and the Savior. Neither what he or I believe about the Rock detracts from that. Unity doesn't necessarily mean conformity.

Exactly.

My point is being answered BurnTheShips and snowbird don't agree and both are Chiristians?

We can disagree on certain things and still be Christian brothers and sisters. Snowbird pointed it out: unity versus conformity. Or unity vs uniformity. The JWs were a mental concentration camp. I had a hard time "getting this" on my way out also, but I now realize that I can't have all the answers. I thought I knew it all as a dub, now I realize I know nearly nothing. I am comfortable walking into the great majority of churches, and have been to several. I also visit a small non-denominational house church from time to time. There is a diversity of viewpoints but all are Christian. This is not at all like the situation that existed when I was a Witness.

For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.

BTS

Number1Anarchist

Wow, you went from staunch witness to whatever floats your boat. I guess you can just bounce around from church to church and not stay there long enough to know anything about there church doctrines or just ignore them altogether. what strange faith indeed. I can't profess to the church buffet and pick and choose what i believe and what i don't believe that's total nonsense in my book. If i don't agree with all of it than i would never enter that building. why not head back to the watchtower and enjoy that same way of thinking.I'm sure they got a few things right like the rest of the Christian religion. If it's really that simple like you guys make it out. That's why we left the Witnesses because it did not have truth along with the high control BS. I guess if you can just ignore any paganism that the church supports. Sounds all easy and simple to you but for me it's disturbing. Read in the old testament did God allow other gods to be worshipped in his temple allong with his worship. You cannot deny the Paganism in all churches. That's is why you will never see me attend. I guess the God you worship is the one that's not jealous and doesn't mind a little paganism as long as you have faith in his son. Just stick to the gospels and forget everything else believe in Jesus and close your eyes to what's going on in the church you attend. Ok anyone else see something strange in this way of thinking. That's why i'm about to throw my bible out the window you guys are proveing my arguement.

BurnTheShips

I think this quote is a good one:

"In essentials, unity, in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity."

Number1Anarchist

I can do that without reading the bible or attending any religious services.

Why do you have to pray to God to beable to understand the Bible?

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