Restrangled...
Your post about your vacation dream was the same as my dream.
I don't have time now... but I'll post about it.
Confucious
being very interested in psychology i read a book as a teenager and re-read it last year called " gestalt therapy verbatim " by frederick perls m.d.
ph, d. .
it deals with dreamwork therapy in which he conducted seminars helping people to re-connect with subconscious parts of themselves by recounting their dreams .
Restrangled...
Your post about your vacation dream was the same as my dream.
I don't have time now... but I'll post about it.
Confucious
being very interested in psychology i read a book as a teenager and re-read it last year called " gestalt therapy verbatim " by frederick perls m.d.
ph, d. .
it deals with dreamwork therapy in which he conducted seminars helping people to re-connect with subconscious parts of themselves by recounting their dreams .
Flipper...
For years - (maybe ten years) - I've had a re-occuring nightmare.
Without going into details... I interpreted the dream.
Basically... figured out the meaning of the dream.
Used that to make a correction in my life. And that correction was a very helpful one - and mostly in attitude.
And haven't had that nightmare since.
Confucious
Newbs...
All you have to do is leave a tract for a tip or witness to the girl at Dunkin Donuts....
during the dark days of the second world war , the monsters that ran a concentration camp decided to hang a child.. they hung the poor little chap so that it took half an hour for him to die, all the while making the other inmates look into the face of the child.. where was your god then ?
was he not strong enough to do anything or did he just not care ?.
if the first then he is a very weak god, if the second then,.
Wobble…
I respectfully accept your challenge and welcome your debate.
And to all the other posters on this thread?
I want to start by saying that I appreciate your comments and they are ALL very thought provoking.
So in the spirit of debate… and logic.
And mostly - respect.
Allow me to begin.
For starters…
ALL of the comments here have been tremendously enlightening.
I’ve had this thread bookmarked since it was started by Wobble.
Upon further research…what Wobble is saying is has been coined by some as, “The Atheists Trump Card.”
In essence… “If God were alive… how could he allow the murder of an innocent child?”
That a child could be brutally murdered?
Where was God!?! Is he dead?
Or perhaps he doesn’t exist?
And even if he did exist… How did he let this happen?
At the very least? God is DEAD.
At the very MOST? God is a MONSTER for letting this happen.
Ok…
No doubt.
Very compelling.
I get it. And your argument is tremendous.
Great points. Really.
But here’s the other side of the story.
And again… Respectfully.
Two points.
1) God is not a “I Dream of Jeannie” God.
God does not say, “Let me create a Giraffe.“ And he closes his eyes, crosses his arm and twitches his nose…”
Ta-da!!! And a Giraffe is there.
Rather - God is a creator.
Whether you believe the Bible or not… no consequence to me.
But for the sake of common ground and debate…
God put Adam into a deep sleep to get a rib to created Eve.
God didn’t use a “Bewitched” nose twitch and suddenly this beautiful woman appears.
Rather… God’s creations are based upon science that we don’t yet understand.
So when we talk about God’s power or his love… can we please put it in perspective?
So when it comes to God’s power. Can we agree that when God says that he can move mountains? That he really meant that he can get a legion of angels to move it for him?
That is far more reasonable than to claim that he can just do a “I Dream of Jeannie” wink and cross-armed bow. And then the mountain suddenly moves.
2) If God really wanted to stop someone. Can he?
Personally? Yes.
But since the Bible, (and the basis of this debate) - says that, “No man may see God and yet live…”
It probably wouldn’t be a good idea.
Since God lives in Heaven. And God created the Sun.
If he came here personally to stop a murder of a child… he would in the process scorch half the earth. (And please. Don’t say prove it. I’m debating on the Christian view of God and the Bible.)
So what’s going on?
For God to get things done on earth… he uses his angels.
So the explanation to where is your God?
He is there. Sending help.
Help by means of angels - who…
Who, quite frankly - get overpowered sometime.
The Bible even says that when God wanted to get a message out to Daniel?
That God sent and angel. And that angel? Ho got stopped COLD in his feet.
Basically a demon - the Prince of Persia…
The “Prince of Persia” blocked the path of God’s angel for 30 days.
It wasn’t until God send reinforcements (in the form of Gabriel) that the message was sent through.
That was for just one message.
Now imagine an bunch of demons that REALLY want to really do some bad.
If you want an explanation? Here it is.
Sometimes really bad things happen and the Police just can’t get there in time.
Especially when the bad guys are blocking the road.
The Bible is quite candid.
It’s doesn’t say, “Blink! Done. Evil is gone!”
The Bible talks about a great battle. Two of them.
One to fight Lucifer and his gang and kick them out of Heaven. And in effect - close the door back into heaven.”
And the other war to rid them out of the earth.
And that might take a long time.
Finally… God does allow some suffering. True.
And he let Jesus die a humiliating and painful death.
To the point where Jesus said, “My God…My God! Why have you forsaken me?”
So if you feel there is no God?
Or that God has abandoned you?
Then you are in VERY good company.
Because if only for a little bit… even Jesus felt that way as well.
But faith in God, is faith in his ability to resurrect a dead person.
It’s a science that we don’t yet grasp. But one which we can all hope for.
And dream for.
Confucious
The same as following a football team, watching games on TV. Checking stats...
Just you don't go out to the stadium and tailgate and get your face all painted up.
Doesn't mean your less of a fan.
just a thought.... and if this thread has been done?
i appologize in advance.. and it's real easy to say, "neither.".
but with how we in america traditionally view dems and republicans.. debate....
Farkel,
That is mean to say.
You are one of my heros on this board.
Your thoughs are amazing.
Confucious
just a thought.... and if this thread has been done?
i appologize in advance.. and it's real easy to say, "neither.".
but with how we in america traditionally view dems and republicans.. debate....
Just a thought...
And if this thread has been done? I appologize in advance.
And it's real easy to say, "Neither."
But with how we in America traditionally view Dems and Republicans.
Debate...
just musing tonight.. but do you think some jw fall into some sort of stockholm syndrome being in the org?.
just a thought.. opinions?.
.
I know it's not SS in it's purest form.
But it's interesting how we "love" being berated on the stage.
Like you'll often here Dubs say, "Wow. That was a great talk. We really needed that. Getting our butt kicked."
And when we're called out on on something we blame ourselves.
just musing tonight.. but do you think some jw fall into some sort of stockholm syndrome being in the org?.
just a thought.. opinions?.
.
Just musing tonight.
But do you think some JW fall into some sort of Stockholm Syndrome being in the Org?
Just a thought.
Opinions?
since i'm still suffering in this crackerjacks organization, these are some of statements that just drive me nuts.
1. in service: "we are not here to convert you" funny how jws have the true religion but resort to deception and outright lies in order to get people to listen
2. to other jws: "we won't have to deal with this in the new system" 7 billion evil doers dead and gone, no longer create problems for us
Any comment connected to the word "Really."
Because with the word "Really" - you automatically dismiss anything the person has done.
Example.
You put in 6 hours of Field Service for the month.
"Well... if 6 hours is whole-hearted service. Then that is good. But is that REALLY the best you can do?"
By the way... try it. It's fun.
It works the other way too.
Even if someone is zealous and the get in 30 hours of field service a month.
"Sister? That is fantastic. You are getting 30 hours in a month. But if you only put in 30 hours when you could be pioneering... it that REALLY the best you can do?"
Confucious