At my mom's congregation, elderly woman sold her house and donated the money to KH. She went to live on public assistance housing.
Posts by kaik
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13Two old ladies sell property and donate entire amount to WTS
by MaybeSo ini am enraged..... two older sisters sold a property and gave the entire sales amount as donation to this printing corporation.
how much is this corporation going to take from these poor people??
these old ladies think they did a great and wonderful act towards wt as if it was given to god himself.
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47
Elder harassed my mom and asked for donation
by kaik inmy mom had surgery last month and she developed complication and had to be on antibiotics to treat infection.
so, she is recovering slowly, but things was tough on her and she was not attending kh or went to assembly two weeks ago.
nonetheless, elder showed up at her place and instead providing her with comfort he started to harass her that her faith is weak, she does not put trust in jah, etc.
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kaik
CC, it is hard to translate the word for overseer. We used a word "dozorce" as someone who has responsibility over the many congregation in one specific country or territory. She did not mean anyone at her congregation. My mom is pretty much regular, she seldom skips KH and she will attend even when I visit her from overseas.. talk about priorities. She is pretty much religious, but loving; but she has mind of her own. She does not like to get bossed around. She had surgery in October, but she developed complication and caught some infection. So she was unable to attend KH and my mom's husband did not want to go among people until she is healed. She also was on post operation rehab center.
So, what my family told me, the elder who is half of her age decided to stop by... and asked about report card and if she can't provide some $$$ donation because overseer will be in town. He even did not ask how she was doing. So my mom told him that she won't be giving him any money, and the overseer should be working instead fleecing the congregation. This instigated the argument, and the elder told her that she has a weak faith in Jehovah, etc.. So, it pissed her off even more and he left on bad mode. He went to my sister and complained about my mom. Since then pretty much everyone in the KH knows about the incident, so they think my mom should be taught a lesson, and nobody talked to her when she appeared.
I know my mom does not care much about TATT, nor flip-flopping doctrines, and unfulfilled expectations about Armageddon, but she does care about giving away money to support someone else lifestyle. She is telling me this for years, and I have heard it from other family members as well. My last conversation with my mom she told me that people at the apex of the WT behave like medieval royalty and bishops who traveled from castle to castle and eat out from local population. I think she will be attending KH with my sister or niece even if it means to travel.
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Elder harassed my mom and asked for donation
by kaik inmy mom had surgery last month and she developed complication and had to be on antibiotics to treat infection.
so, she is recovering slowly, but things was tough on her and she was not attending kh or went to assembly two weeks ago.
nonetheless, elder showed up at her place and instead providing her with comfort he started to harass her that her faith is weak, she does not put trust in jah, etc.
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kaik
CC. no, congregation does not support elders. It pays only expenses related to KH like taxes, garbage collection, and utilities. However, what I have heard from relatives in three different KH scattered in across country, either in the capital or countryside, the KH has set amount of money that should be collected for international work and support overseas operations.
CO on the other hand is supported by KHs, and I know it from Czech Republic and Slovakia. When he visits the KH the local members are paying his expenses like gasoline, and meals. This was and is a source of anger among many, it was channeled to me by my mom, siblings, niece, and aunt. All of them are going to different KH and they live as far as 300km apart. So it is not an issue for one congregation. I have relatives in Slovakia as well, but I do not have contract on them directly, so I only heard it channeled through my family. But I know my mom and my sister do not like supporting CO, and they told me explicitly that they feel he and his snobby wife is abusing/fleecing congregation(s). My mom does not have problem with donating money for her local KH. She donated a lot over the years and we put a lot of money when we build our first one in the city. However, nobody in my family feel that they should support CO for nothing
When it comes to Bethel in Prague, the case could be obtained from court responsible for Prague city district. This issue was also reported on media and it became a source of embarrassment for WT. According to police report one of the elder there was also an owner of brothel. It been 15 years or so for me to remember all the details. But eventually, Bethel in Prague was closed and CZ territory is serviced from Slovakia, which is weird considering that CZ twice that big and the facility was brand new and had better base. What I have read/heard it was a way to sweep the problem away. The issue of financial abuse were heard well in 1990's when some people donated properties to WT operation. 25 years ago, they had a nice, luxurious villa in one the best addresses in Prague. Why?
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Elder harassed my mom and asked for donation
by kaik inmy mom had surgery last month and she developed complication and had to be on antibiotics to treat infection.
so, she is recovering slowly, but things was tough on her and she was not attending kh or went to assembly two weeks ago.
nonetheless, elder showed up at her place and instead providing her with comfort he started to harass her that her faith is weak, she does not put trust in jah, etc.
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kaik
Crazyguy. There was a huge scandal in Prague's Bethel around 2000 when four or five were caught stealing and misusing funds. This was investigated by State Police and was dealt at the court. Brooklyn had to sent a team to get things straighten up. These four or five were DFs. and all was swept under the carpet. Bethel in Prague was eventually closed and the operation were moved to Slovakia. -
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Could Wt afford to proselytise in China if they were allowed in.
by joe134cd ini was just thinking today if china opened it doors to wt, and there was the surge of interest as was the the case with the european eastern block countries when communism 1st fell.
what would be wt reaction toward it.
could wt even afford to proselytise in china.
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kaik
Actually Joe, JW declined after the fall of communism. WT were either illegal, or underground, but tolerated, so it created an excellent environment for people to accept radical, doomsday ideas. Immediately, there was a spike followed by big waning in interest in religion. This is attested in last three censuses since 1989 where religiosity declined across the region. Younger generation is oblivious to JW message. Time when Jehovah Witnesses could attract 50,000 to 80,000 people on assemblies in Eastern Europe is long gone. I remember when memorial attendance was hovering around 50,000 and today is about 25,000.
If JWs would be legal in China, there will be certainly a spike of interest. It would be something new, mysterious, and enticing. You will fish out some segment of population that is fascinated with doomsday cult and there is nothing anyone can do about.
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Elder harassed my mom and asked for donation
by kaik inmy mom had surgery last month and she developed complication and had to be on antibiotics to treat infection.
so, she is recovering slowly, but things was tough on her and she was not attending kh or went to assembly two weeks ago.
nonetheless, elder showed up at her place and instead providing her with comfort he started to harass her that her faith is weak, she does not put trust in jah, etc.
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kaik
My mom is back in KH, but immediately she arrived, the elderette told her that she heard that my mom is giving up on Jehovah. So, elder had to complain, and now everyone knows that she was arguing with him. She is still in a lot of pain and she had to walk with cane to get to KH due hip/knee repetitive surgery. Nobody asked how she is doing, how was surgery, or if she needs anything. Poor woman, dedicated to get to program, is in pain, and they are turning back at her and ignore her during program. -
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kaik
I am not sure about USA group of JWs, but in several European countries they have a pack of traveling elders who they called executioner squad. Usually, the elders in the KH reach out of to them, present them with a problematic JW, and the agreement is that this person must be DF. Usually a pair of the traveling executioners with local elder visit the targeted person and gets DFs right at the spot. The executioners return to the branch office and brag along the way who was DFs. I know people who were DFs on the JC meeting for citing older literature, for what overseer had said on the assembly, but elders disagreed, and even a person who refused to meet with these two executioners, because he did not know them and never seen them before. -
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The Military Failure of the United States of America. Why?
by fulltimestudent inthe usa is undoubtedly the strongest military power in the world, and has often been willing to use that power against other nations, some historians count 187 foreign wars in 200 years, and this youtube video lists the wars the us has fought in the twentieth century, most of which, (in the earliest part of the 20th c) it can be argued, were won by the usa.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q51nfakme-g. this is not an argument about the rightness or wrongness of any war.
the argument is why the mightiest ever military power, a political power that controls overwhelming destructive forces, a power that claims to stand on the side of its god, does not win wars?
have you thought about this question?
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kaik
FTS
Alexander did not create new empire, he just conquer it from Persia. What he wanted was to unify both culture, Hellenistic and Persian. He did not consider Persians inferior, but showed a deep admiration for the civilization. He also implemented policy of mutual interbreeding, where he forced members of his staff and armed forces to marry local women and created a blend of new class from both. This worked in Afghanistan. It was much harder for next generation to oppose Greek ideals when daddy was Greek. Romans did similar tactics on conquered, but not hostile tribes.
Mongol empire was build on opposite principles than Hellenistic empire. It was based on mass slaughter and population extermination. Mongols did not care about wealth, art, culture, business, and had very little need for urban population among nomads. Grandson of Genghis said that his grandfather could conquer the world, but he did not know a single day how to rule it. Mongol conquests were pretty much erased after 100 years. Because most of the genes were destroyed, the surviving population did not had much chance to restore to their previous greatness. One of the major regression of Orthodox Europe, Middle East, Central Asia, and Far East after 1250 in comparison to Western Europe can be traced to Mongol Empire. Western Europe became the wealthiest and technologically the most advanced region in the world for next 500 years.
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The Military Failure of the United States of America. Why?
by fulltimestudent inthe usa is undoubtedly the strongest military power in the world, and has often been willing to use that power against other nations, some historians count 187 foreign wars in 200 years, and this youtube video lists the wars the us has fought in the twentieth century, most of which, (in the earliest part of the 20th c) it can be argued, were won by the usa.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q51nfakme-g. this is not an argument about the rightness or wrongness of any war.
the argument is why the mightiest ever military power, a political power that controls overwhelming destructive forces, a power that claims to stand on the side of its god, does not win wars?
have you thought about this question?
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kaik
United States never excelled on diplomatic front and this was already inherited in the foundation of the nation. The only alliance it had was France, from 1783 only to break it one-sided by Adams in December of 1800, because he hated French. Until 1940, USA enforced isolationist policy and was never part of any coalition or military alliances until WWII. The victory of WWII (which was a coalition victory), created an aura of invincibility and belief of supremacy of its values everywhere. Very a few in leadership and population alike are aware that winning a war and holding on conquered territory are two totally different issues. Romans learned it the hard way.
Roman army was the most superior fighting force unmatched by size until French Grande Armée in 1794. Romans also believed that they were invincible, superior, and advanced than any country they marched on. However, they failed with this strategy among Germanic barbarians and Persians. While both entities inflicted painful defeat to Roman army, Romans won most of the wars with them. The marched as far to Susa in Iran and sacked capitol of Persia several times. They crossed over Rhine and Danube, burned everything on sight, but never managed to create a stable Roman rule.
Romans did not understand why Germanic nations do not want to be liberated by them. They invited children and relatives of the ruling elite, dressed the warriors' wives in silk and jewelry, showed them wonders of the Roman civilizations, yet these Germans were stubborn, and were not impressed. Even in Tacitus misunderstood the opinion of the population north of Danube, that they just do not want to be liberated and wanted to live a life as they liked. USA after 1945 does exact the same mistake as Romans. People in very impoverished corners of the world just do not care much about the cultural and political system of USA. They can give a rat about it. In 2003-2005 newspapers were full of encouragement how Americans will build democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan, and how everything will work from the point onward. None of the expectation have worked and will never work. It is difficult to force population to accept a cultural and political system they do not see it as their own.
Again, because West Germany became a democracy, many on the leadership from DEM and GOP things that this will be applicable everywhere. From the modern history of 1945, all the wars were won, but they were political failure. Because these wars did not create a collective scar (unlike Civil War or WWII), these failures are subsequently forgotten in following generations, and cycle is repeated elsewhere.
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Do most ex JW's go politically left?
by Lightgrowsbrighter ini've found it interesting that- imho- most of the politically vocal ex-jw's at this website seem to lean left.
i'm personally pretty centered- right on some issues, left on others, but overall have a pretty cynical view of all political/religious leaders.
i find it somewhat ironic that people who leave such a dogmatic group like the witnesses become so politically dogmatic.
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kaik
to be fair, this also applies to some left-wing people.
Yes, it does. Some lefties are very defensive. Nonetheless, right-wing neoconservatives at least what I have seen on JWN are outweigh them in responses, verbal aggression, irrational constructs, and total disregards to well known, documented facts even from their own ranks.