Posts by shadow

85

Ban on Jeans , T-Shirts & Shorts after the Convention

by dozy in

jw
friends

apr km insert.

"even during leisure time , such as when going out to eat after the programme , we should dress as befits ministers... and should not wear such clothing as jeans , shorts or t-shirts.

what a witness this will give to the community.".

shadow

Anyone recall the story about Franz and the "Where in the hell is McCook Nebraska?" shirt??

31

this is the fun one......... health, dismemberment, death (natural and unnatural) murder and suicide.. well its sunday afternoon, portland oregon, february 18, 2007.........its been 34 years,.......i 'm just drunk enough, excuse me,.....i mean "self medicated"enough (p.s.

juni sweet heart.... i love you), to start writing this chapter.........the people at bethel were killing us spiritually!.......and sometimes they killed us physically too.....i'm not letting myself of the hook...i was there and i was as bad them..............no, i'm sorry i was worst then them......and why?.....because i knew better....those bastards didn't know any better .......we need to send them some love........the thing they can't give us ................we need to give them......... love............. "thats all you need" .

first off....... when you go to bethel, you sign a document stating that if you die while you are at bethel, the society has "the right" to keep your body.........most people, just sign it and forget about it, but don't you think that is just a little strange?..........i did.

shadow

Enjoying your stories, but a little confused on one point. I think you said you were there from 70-74 but also said you were there when Margaret burned down??

23

Hemodilution: A new secret change in blood Policy ?

by chasson in

take a look at the forum of noblood.org, a website maintaining by some jw like larry eitel and jan b. wade (this last is a founder of sabm too).

jan b. wade made here a curious remark concerning hemodilution:.

"there has been some refinement in what a jehovah's witness patient may or may not accept.

shadow

A similar topic that may be of interest.

http://www.noblood.org/general-discussions/697-cell-salvage-irradiation-jehovahs-witnesses.html

32

They make mistakes just like 1st century christians did.

by GBSJG in

when i'm discussing problems i have with the wts with my family they often say well they make mistakes just like the early christians did, they are not perfect.. i try to argue that if you think that way you can go to any christian church and say the same.

but usually they say that compared to other religions the wts makes less mistakes so you should go there.. i know that such reasoning doesn't make sense to me but what is a good response to this?.

shadow

I have pasted a good article on this that is easy to show the parallels between what it discusses and the WTS (e.g. blood transfusions).

*** g70 4/22 8-10 Changes That Disturb People ***
Changes That Disturb People

THE churches are in rapid decline. Even in the United States, where religion still enjoys perhaps the greatest popularity, nearly three out of four persons polled said that it is losing influence. Why is there this decline in religion?
One of the reasons is that people are disturbed by what is happening in their churches. Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement, or even despair, because of what is happening in your church? A businessman in Medellín, Colombia, expressed the effect the changes have had on many.
“Tell me,” he asked, “how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe ‘new things.’ How do I know the ‘new things’ will be the truth in five years?”What are some of these changes that disturb people?

Should Meat Be Eaten on Friday?
FOR centuries Catholics abstained from eating meat on Fridays. It was a Church law. Many sincerely believed it was a law of Almighty God. But now this has changed.
The fact is that the meatless-Friday rule was made an obligation only some 1,100 years ago. Pope Nicholas I (858-867) was the one who put it into effect. And how vital was it considered that Catholics abide by this rule?
A publication that bears the Catholic imprimatur, indicating approval, states: “The Catholic Church says that it is a mortal sin for a Catholic to eat meat on Friday knowingly and wilfully, without a sufficiently grave and excusing reason.” It adds: The “Church says that if a man dies in unrepented mortal sin, he will go to hell.”—Radio Replies, Rumble and Carty (1938).
Thus the devout carefully avoided eating meat on Fridays. They sincerely believed that failure to obey could lead to their eternal punishment in a fiery hell.
But then, early in 1966, Pope Paul VI authorized local Church officials to modify this abstinence requirement in their countries as they saw fit. The pope was acting in line with recommendations made at the recently completed Second Vatican Council. Thus, in one country after another, meatless Fridays were virtually abolished—in France, Canada, Italy, Mexico, the United States, and so on.

The Effect
The effect upon many devout Catholics has been devastating. “All these years I thought it was a sin to eat meat,” explained a housewife in the midwestern United States. “Now I suddenly find out it isn’t a sin. That’s hard to understand.”
If you are a Catholic, can you understand how a practice that was considered by the Church a “mortal sin” can suddenly be approved? if it was a sin five years ago, why is it not today? Many Catholics cannot understand.
When a woman in Canada was asked how she felt about the changes in her church, she replied: “I don’t know. Maybe you can tell me. What are they going to do with all those people sent to hell for eating meat on Friday?”Not just a few Catholics have asked such questions. The change in teaching has shaken their confidence in the Church. Would you not feel the same way if what you had always been taught to be vital for salvation was suddenly considered unnecessary? Would you not be inclined to question other teachings of your church also?The Catholic Church, however, has not completely changed its position on Friday meat abstinence. Even now Catholics are still required to abstain from eating meat on “Good Friday.” Also, in some places they must not eat meat on Fridays during the Lenten season.
But why is it considered wrong to eat meat on “Good Friday,” but permissible to do so on other Fridays of the year? It has caused thinking persons to wonder.
Many persons have begun to ask questions regarding the basis for this teaching, as well as about other Church teachings. And what especially disturbs them is that they have not received satisfying answers.

What Becomes EvidentThe inability of the Church to explain its position Scripturally makes evident an important fact: The Catholic Church has not based its teachings upon what God’s Word says. Rather, it has founded many of its beliefs and practices on the unstable traditions of men.This is obviously true with regard to Friday meat abstinence. For, look as you may, nowhere in the Bible will you find that Christians were ever instructed to refrain from eating meat on any Friday of the year, or on any other day. It is not a requirement of God. In fact, the Catholic edition of the Revised Standard Version Bible says that enjoining or commanding “abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving” is an evidence of a departure from the faith.—1 Tim. 4:1-4.
Thus, many truth-seekers are having their eyes opened to see that the Catholic Church has not been holding strictly to God’s Word. And they are wondering whether any religion that does not do so is worthy of their confidence and support.

37

PROVE ME WRONG! JW's were the only religion to oppose Hitler

by truthsearcher in

this statement was made to me and i want to refute it with verifiable information on other denominations.

anyone with ideas?.

shadow

This thread is a joke. There are lots of things to attack JW’s on, but this isn’t one of them. As for Niemoller and the Confessing Church, they did not object to serving in the German military (see below).

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/niem.htm

In that same book, on. p. 43, Niemöller explained in an interview with a US army chaplain why, while he was in Dachau, he offered to serve in the German navy. You can take his explanation or leave it - it sounds apologetic to me! Here it is:
" Niemöller said he saw three possibilities: 1) if Germany lost the war, it would have been very bad for the country; 2) if the Nazis had won the war, it would have been even worse for Germany; 3) if fighting continued in the hope of pushing the Nazis out of the government and a negotiated peace might have come about. If that last possibility came true, he didn't want to be in prison, but wanted to contribute to the future of his country in freedom. also, his three sons had been drafted into the army, and he felt that in those circumstances a father's place was with his sons. "

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/projects/niem/Niem1946GuiltHope13-16.htm

Of Guilt and Hope, by Martin Niemöller

New York: Philosophical Library, 1947 [79 pp. 21 cm.]
translation by Renee Spodheim of:
Die deutsche Schuld, Not und Hoffnung,
Zurich: Evangelischer Verlag, 1946.

Document and analysis by Harold Marcuse, Professor of History at UCSB,
page created May 2003, uploaded 9/17/04
(part of my Martin Niemöller Quotation page)

According to a short announcement in the New York Times on Aug. 5, 1947, this translation was withdrawn from circulation by the Philosophical Society after it became known that Niemoeller may have supported the Nazis as early as 1924.

37

PROVE ME WRONG! JW's were the only religion to oppose Hitler

by truthsearcher in

this statement was made to me and i want to refute it with verifiable information on other denominations.

anyone with ideas?.

shadow

A page from the sterling record of Catholicism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ante_Pavelic

Pavelic remained in Italy until the beginning of World War II. In 1941, Yugoslavia was invaded and conquered and he became the leader (Poglavnik) of the so-called Independent State of Croatia - a puppet state of Nazi Germany proclaimed on April 10, 1941.

As the leader of the Ustaše he directly ordered, organised and conducted a campaign of terror against Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, and communist Croats. The extent of this campaign reached the proportions of genocide. Pavelic's Ustaše regime was the most murderous Nazi client state in the entirety of occupied Europe [1] [2] . Numerous surviving testimonies from the Nuremberg Trial and the German and the Italian war archives bear witness to bestialities perpetrated against the civilian population of the state. According to these testimonies, the Nazi officers themselves were horrified by the scenes of atrocities committed by his Ustaše, forcing them to stop the bloodshed (Jasenovac, 1941), arrest one of the most notorious Ustaše (Fra Miroslav Filipovic-Majstorovic, Banja Luka, 1942) and disarm an Ustaše detachment (Eastern Bosnia, 1942). These atrocities were recorded in novelistic literature and poetry: Malaparte's Kaputt Basket of oysters chapter, inspired by the widespread practices of Ustaše's gouging out the eyes of Serbs; Kovacic 's Jama (The Pit), where Ustaše tied Serbs with barbed wire and dropped them into pits; Oljaca's Kozara; Svetina's Volcici (The Wolf Puppies). As far as the Serb population of the puppet state was concerned, the stated aim was the extermination of a third of their numbers, exile for another third, and a forced conversion to Catholicism for yet another. The Ustaše succeeded in reaching their first goal, exterminating close to one third of the Serbs and possibly more. Pavelic's regime was not officially recognised by the Vatican, but at no point did the Church condemn the genocide and forced conversions to Catholicism perpetrated by the Ustaše. [3] Soon after coming to power in April 1941 Pavelic was given a private audience in Rome by Pope Pius XII, an act for which the Pope was widely criticised. A British Foreign Office memo on the subject described Pius as "the greatest moral coward of our age" for receiving Pavelic. [4]

[ edit ] Post-war

In May 1945 he fled via Bleiburg to Austria, where he stayed for a few months before transferring to Rome, where he was hidden by members of the Roman Catholic Church (as is documented in de-classified US Intelligence documents) [1]).

His stay in Rome was known to the American Counterintelligence Corps, but they apparently were not interested in the arrest of any non-Communists from eastern parts of Europe. Six months later, he fled to South America. Upon arriving in Argentina via the ratlines, he became a security advisor to Juan Peron. Peron issued 34,000 visas to Croatians: both the Nazi collaborators and the anti-communists that fled from the new communist government led by Josip Broz Tito.

In April 1957 he was shot twice in an assassination attempt. The operation was attributed to the Yugoslav intelligence services, although the possibility that this was an attempt at revenge by a Chetnik activist was not dismissed. Pavelic was subsequently forced to flee Argentina to avoid arrest and extradition, and he found refuge in Spain, where he died in Madrid in late 1959, from complications of his wounds.

37

PROVE ME WRONG! JW's were the only religion to oppose Hitler

by truthsearcher in

this statement was made to me and i want to refute it with verifiable information on other denominations.

anyone with ideas?.

shadow

The actions of JW's do stand out among other denominations under Nazi Germany.

Those trying to revise this history are close cousins to the Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who has described the Holocaust as "a myth".

25

Jehovahs Witnesses and Ecclesiastical Authority

by concerned elder in

i have research the subject throughly and would be willing to share with those who have an interest.. concerned elder.

shadow

An old thread that might interest concerned elder

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/98798/1.ashx

Discussion below posted from another old thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/84617/1.ashx

I have copied below my research on the idea of the GB. Maybe this will give a clearer picture of what I am talking about. I copied it in from Word and hope it retains the formatting, otherwise it will be very hard to read.

Here are some references about the group usually referred to as the 1st century governing body. My comments are in black.

EVIDENCE FROM ACTS

Barnabas has to convince apostles about Paul. Jesus did not see fit to inform them.

(Acts

Brothers from Jerusalem were the source of the problem about the circumcision issue.

(Acts 15:1-26) 15 And certain men came down from Ju?de´a and began to teach the brothers: ?Unless YOU get circumcised according to the custom of Moses, YOU cannot be saved.? 2 But when there had occurred no little dissension and disputing by Paul and Bar´na?bas with them, they arranged for Paul and Bar´na?bas and some others of them to go up to the apostles and older men in Jerusalem regarding this dispute.
3 Accordingly, after being conducted partway by the congregation, these men continued on their way through both Phoe?ni´cia and Sa?mar´i?a, relating in detail the conversion of people of the nations, and they were causing great joy to all the brothers. 4 On arriving in Jerusalem they were kindly received by the congregation and the apostles and the older men, and they recounted the many things God had done by means of them. 5 Yet, some of those of the sect of the Pharisees that had believed rose up from their seats and said: ?It is necessary to circumcise them and charge them to observe the law of Moses.?

Seems to have caused quite an argument.

6 And the apostles and the older men gathered together to see about this affair. 7 Now when much disputing had taken place, Peter rose and said to them: ?Men, brothers, YOU well know that from early days God made the choice among YOU that through my mouth people of the nations should hear the word of the good news and believe; 8 and God, who knows the heart, bore witness by giving them the holy spirit, just as he did to us also. 9 And he made no distinction at all between us and them, but purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now, therefore, why are YOU making a test of God by imposing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke that neither our forefathers nor we were capable of bearing? 11 On the contrary, we trust to get saved through the undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus in the same way as those people also.?

Paul & Barnabas finally get the floor.

12 At that the entire multitude became silent, and they began to listen to Bar´na?bas and Paul relate the many signs and portents that God did through them among the nations.

Perhaps more respect given to James by these Judean brothers than given to Paul? Sometimes local elder listened to more readily, or maybe because of sharing a similar view about need to still follow the Law?

13 After they quit speaking, James answered, saying: ?Men, brothers, hear me. 14 Sym´e?on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. 15 And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, 16 ?After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again, 17 in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, 18 known from of old.? 19 Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, 20 but to write them to abstain from things polluted by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 For from ancient times Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.? 22 Then the apostles and the older men together with the whole congregation favored sending chosen men from among them to Antioch along with Paul and Bar´na?bas, namely, Judas who was called Bar´sab?bas and Silas, leading men among the brothers; 23 and by their hand they wrote: ?The apostles and the older men, brothers, to those brothers in Antioch and Syria and Ci?li´cia who are from the nations: Greetings!

Admission that problem was from Jerusalem, although not instructed to do so.

24 Since we have heard that some from among us have caused YOU trouble with speeches, trying to subvert YOUR souls, although we did not give them any instructions, 25 we have come to a unanimous accord and have favored choosing men to send to YOU together with our loved ones, Bar´na?bas and Paul, 26 men that have delivered up their souls for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Later Paul had been warned by the spirit that if he went to Jerusalem, he would be imprisoned and face tribulations.

(Acts 20:22-23) 22 And now, look! bound in the spirit, I am journeying to Jerusalem, although not knowing the things that will happen to me in it, 23 except that from city to city the holy spirit repeatedly bears witness to me as it says that bonds and tribulations are waiting for me.

(Acts 21:4) 4 By a search we found the disciples and remained here seven days. But through the spirit they repeatedly told Paul not to set foot in Jerusalem.

(Acts 21:8-14) 8 The next day we set out and arrived in Caes?a?re´a, and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelizer, who was one of the seven men, and we stayed with him. 9 This man had four daughters, virgins, that prophesied. 10 But while we were remaining quite a number of days, a certain prophet named Ag´a?bus came down from Ju?de´a, 11 and he came to us and took up the girdle of Paul, bound his own feet and hands and said: ?Thus says the holy spirit, ?The man to whom this girdle belongs the Jews will bind in this manner in Jerusalem and deliver into the hands of people of the nations.?? 12 Now when we heard this, both we and those of that place began entreating him not to go up to . 13 Then Paul answered: ?What are YOU doing by weeping and making me weak at heart? Rest assured, I am ready not only to be bound but also to die at for the name of the Lord Jesus.? 14 When he would not be dissuaded, we acquiesced with the words: ?Let the will of Jehovah take place.?

Years later governing body (??) was still concerned about impression given to Jews, leading to the bad advice given to Paul resulting in his arrest.

(Acts -25) 18 But on the following [day] Paul went in with us to James; and all the older men were present. 19 And he greeted them and began giving in detail an account of the things God did among the nations through his ministry. 20 After hearing this they began to glorify God, and they said to him: ?You behold, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews; and they are all zealous for the Law. 21 But they have heard it rumored about you that you have been teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the [solemn] customs. 22 What, then, is to be done about it? In any case they are going to hear you have arrived. 23 Therefore do this which we tell you: We have four men with a vow upon themselves. 24 Take these men along and cleanse yourself ceremonially with them and take care of their expenses, that they may have their heads shaved. And so everybody will know that there is nothing to the rumors they were told about you, but that you are walking orderly, you yourself also keeping the Law. 25 As for the believers from among the nations, we have sent out, rendering our decision that they should keep themselves from what is sacrificed to idols as well as from blood and what is strangled and from fornication.?

This advice did not turn out too well for Paul, since he was beaten, arrested and later sent to Rome as a prisoner. Jesus did make this turn out for the good anyway.

(Acts 23:11) 11 But the following night the Lord stood by him and said: ?Be of good courage! For as you have been giving a thorough witness on the things about me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness in Rome.?

Here?s the WT on this incident: *** w87 8/1 pp. 13-14 Christ Actively Leads His Congregation ***
An Unusual Decision
15 Another interesting example of Christ?s active direction of things from heaven is what took place after Paul?s third missionary journey. Luke relates that upon returning to Jerusalem, Paul made a full report to the members of the governing body on hand. Luke wrote: ?Paul went in with us to James; and all the older men were present. And he greeted them and began giving in detail an account of the things God did among the nations through his ministry.? (Acts 21:17-19) After hearing Paul, the assembled body gave him clear-cut instruction, stating: ?Do this which we tell you.? They ordered him to go to the temple and publicly demonstrate that he was not ?teaching all the Jews among the nations an apostasy from Moses, telling them neither to circumcise their children nor to walk in the solemn customs.??Acts -24.
16 One might question the wisdom of this instruction. As we have already seen, years earlier James, and perhaps other elders present on both occasions, had sent Paul away from because his life was threatened by ?Greek-speaking Jews.? (Acts ) In spite of this, Paul complied with the order, in line with what he had already said at 1 Corinthians 9:20. But like causes produce like effects. ?Jews from [the Roman province of] ? caused a riot and tried to kill Paul. Only quick action by Roman soldiers saved him from being lynched. (Acts 21:26-32) Since Christ is the active Head of the congregation, why did he cause the governing body to require Paul to go into the temple?
17 The answer becomes apparent in what occurred the second night after Paul?s arrest. He had given a fine witness to the mob that sought to kill him and, the following day, to the Sanhedrin. (Acts 22:1-21; 23:1-6) For the second time he was nearly lynched. But that night, Jesus appeared to him and said: ?Be of good courage! For as you have been giving a thorough witness on the things about me in Jerusalem, so you must also bear witness in Rome.? (Acts ) Remember the threefold mission Christ had foretold for Paul. (Acts ) Paul had borne Christ?s name to ?the nations? and to ?the sons of Israel,? but the time had now come for him to witness ?to kings.? Because of that decision by the governing body, Paul was able to witness to Roman procurators Felix and Festus, to King Herod Agrippa II, and, finally, to Roman Emperor Nero. (Acts, chapters 24?26; 27:24) Who can doubt that Christ was behind all of this?

Conveniently forgotten is the fact that Jesus previously warned Paul not to go. So was Jesus behind all this, or did he give Paul warnings to avoid Jerusalem, knowing that Paul would follow the misguided advice of the brothers in ?

EVIDENCE FROM GALATIANS

Paul contacted directly by Jesus at his conversion and did not then report to a governing body. Even when he did go to Jerusalem, he did not see a governing body.

(Galatians 1:17-19) 17 Neither did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles previous to me, but I went off into Arabia, and I came back again to Damascus. 18 Thenthree years later I went up to Jerusalem to visit Ce´phas, and I stayed with him for fifteen days. 19 But I saw no one else of the apostles, only James the brother of the Lord.

Absent from Jerusalem for 14 years and then went only because of the problem that started from there.

(Galatians 2:1-14) 2 Then after fourteen years I again went up to Jerusalem with Bar´na?bas, taking also Titus along with me. 2 But I went up as a result of a revelation. And I laid before them the good news which I am preaching among the nations, privately, however, before those who were outstanding men, for fear that somehow I was running or had run in vain. 3 Nevertheless, not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, although he was a Greek. 4 But because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who sneaked in to spy upon our freedom which we have in union with Christ Jesus, that they might completely enslave us?

Paul refused to submit to brothers from Jerusalem.

5 to these we did not yield by way of submission, no, not for an hour, in order that the truth of the good news might continue with YOU.

Paul apparently observed no clearly defined positions and did not receive any new light there. It seems to me that Paul was not in the least reticent in their presence or intimidated by brothers in Jerusalem.

6 But on the part of those who seemed to be something? whatever sort of men they formerly were makes no difference to me?God does not go by a man?s outward appearance?to me, in fact, those outstanding men imparted nothing new. 7 But, on the contrary, when they saw that I had entrusted to me the good news for those who are uncircumcised, just as Peter [had it] for those who are circumcised? 8 for He who gave Peter powers necessary for an apostleship to those who are circumcised gave powers also to me for those who are of the nations; 9 yes, when they came to know the undeserved kindness that was given me, James and Ce´phas and John, the ones who seemed to be pillars, gave me and Bar´na?bas the right hand of sharing together, that we should go to the nations, but they to those who are circumcised. 10 Only we should keep the poor in mind. This very thing I have also earnestly endeavored to do.

Paul again refused to submit to wrong example of Peter. James seemed unable to even convince his close associates to change some of their behavior in regard to their Gentile brothers even after the council in Jerusalem.

11 However, when Ce´phas came to Antioch, I resisted him face to face, because he stood condemned. 12 Forbefore the arrival of certain men from James, he used to eat with people of the nations; but when they arrived, he went withdrawing and separating himself, in fear of those of the circumcised class.

Another example of concern with impression given to Jews.

13 The rest of the Jews also joined him in putting on this pretense, so that even Bar´na?bas was led along with them in their pretense. 14 But when I saw they were not walking straight according to the truth of the good news, I said to Ce´phas before them all: ?If you, though you are a Jew, live as the nations do, and not as Jews do, how is it that you are compelling people of the nations to live according to Jewish practice??

WT writes that Paul was a member of the 1st century governing body. They apparently did not meet very often since as far as we know, Paul only met with them twice in over twenty years.

Peter is also viewed as part of this governing body, yet his letters are written from Babylon. That would also seem to be a hindrance to attending governing body meetings in .

Not one letter in the Bible is written collectively and anonymously by a governing body, only individuals were used. When Jesus wanted someone to do something in particular, Jesus contacted them directly.

WT seems to imply that authority of apostles was superseded by governing body: *** w97 5/15 pp. 16-17 Theocratic Administration in the Christian Era ***
6 When Paul came to Jerusalem about the year 56 C.E., he reported to James and, the Bible says, ?all the older men were present.? (Acts ) Why was there no mention of apostles at this meeting? Again, the Bible does not say. But the historian Eusebius later reported that some time before 66 C.E., ?the remaining apostles, in constant danger from murderous plots, were driven out of . But to teach their message they travelled into every land in the power of Christ.? (Eusebius, Book III, V, v. 2) True, Eusebius? words are not part of the inspired record, but they do harmonize with what that record says. For example, by 62 C.E., Peter was in Babylon ?far from Jerusalem. (1 Peter 5:13) Still, in 56 C.E., and likely right up until 66 C.E., a governing body was clearly active in Jerusalem.

So I just don?t see much evidence to support the contention that there was a 1st century governing body administering the congregations. Some such arrangement may be appropriate now (although somewhat Pharisaical and proud as portrayed in the literature, IMHO ) in view of the fact that we don?t have the benefit of inspiration or direct communication with Jesus or angels, but I don?t really see that is the way it was in the 1st century.

20

A Genuine Invitation to any Lurking Elders or JW's

by JWFreak in

jw
friends

i have just decided to start posting, as has another elder "doubting brother" .

i guess that there are perhaps many out there who wish to post but are perhaps nervous.

well that is quite understandable.

shadow

Hi! Still a JW here. I've been reading this forum for over 5 years. An elder until a year ago.

1380

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness in

think about this: if seven times mean only 7 years then daniel could have simply said 7 years.

why does daniel specifically use the word 'times' rather than years?

as we have already shown daniel used the word for 7 times instead of 7 years.

shadow

thirdwitness, You know what is a funny thing. You say you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses and yet rather than siding with a fellow JW you cast your lot in with religious leaders who have a long record of error, who value conformity over truth, leaders that are disloyal to Jehovah by relying on their own ideas rather than the Bible.

Are you friends with Jehovah's people or Jehovah's enemies?

Think about that for a moment.

Shadow, who is still a JW after 40 years