by GBSJG 32 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
When I'm discussing problems I have with the WTS with my family they often say well they make mistakes just like the early christians did, they are not perfect.
I try to argue that if you think that way you can go to any christian church and say the same. But usually they say that compared to other religions the WTS makes less mistakes so you should go there.
I know that such reasoning doesn't make sense to me but what is a good response to this?
If the bible was written by imperfect men, but there are no mistakes in it and it is the inerrant word of God, because God inspired these imperfect people to write it, why is it that 'imperfection' is an excuse for the mistakes they've made with doctrine? If God could inspire imperfect men to write a flawless bible, why can he no longer do this with the Watchtower publications?
Yes, all churches make mistakes but God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. The light doesn't get brighter and then go dim again. JW history is so full of flip flopping of doctines. You cannot make a law out of speculations. Should you have gone to elders 10 years ago and told them that the WBTS is wrong about "this generation" and that you felt it did not mean the generation of 1914 you would have been disfellowshipped for apostacy. Yet when they change the doctrine it's ok. It's so sad that so many people believe the JW and never question any of the teachings. Keep talking to your family, maybe something you say will plant the first seed of doubt.
Trying to point out the flip flops will do no good. They simply say the wt was right at 'that time' even if it changes back to the original point of view which is contrary to the 'new light' that is now old light.
You sort of ask the question that begs to say, "What will set them free from the concept
that WTS is God's organization?"
I tried this one, but it didn't work with the elders I used it with-
If they are imperfect humans directed by God, then shouldn't their message be right
and getting more right as the end gets closer? Not- wrong before, but right now.
If the light gets brighter, then they should have said that the generation could have
been those alive in 1914, but possibly not. 'Faithful and discreet' means to me that
they will discreetly wait until they know something as a fact before they insist upon
us following it as a fact.
Needless to say, that argument was to fail. There is not one magic question or
statement for all the faithful JW's. Just keep trying different ones occasionally.
There is evidence that in the early days of the Christian church, there may have been pretty wide diversity of belief among them. Call it mistaken doctrine I suppose. There was not total aggreement. God did not tell those who felt they had the closer 'truth' to show hatred toward those who had lesser amounts of 'truth'.
Jw's allow their own imperfection of belief, but hate those others who have the same. They reject the body of Christ in such action.
If they would accept Christ [as in allowing communion], and would accept the body of Christ [as in tolerance of other churches], drop the cultish shunning and un-Christian attitudes of superiority [like most churches], then there would be room for discussion with them, perhaps even 'fellowship with Christ' within their walls. Their insistence on Divine exclusivity puts them into the same catagory as the ancient Jews - clearly not having God's favor any longer, and showing hostility to those who do. The arrogance of their assertions make it impossible that they can ever be welcomed into that family.
Jeff
Probably your family is victim of misrepresented reality, based on what WTS told them. Note this line of reasoning.
All God servant in all the time , not just the 1st century , were imperfect and failed many time in their life-time.
BUT, when some of these men were writing God Word , they came under God Spirit direction (if you belevie in the Bible inspiration, of course), and so what's in the Bible is perfect, even if it comes from human work.
So when GB made false date prediction in their book and magazine , pretending they are "God Channel" , they MUST have been right because GOD doesn't communicate anything bad or wrong to men. In this case they cannot appeal to the human shortcoming
The argument of the inspiration of the bible which was written by imperfect men is a good one and one that I haven't thought about before.
About new light I have used the flip flopping of doctrines and that that is not a light getting brighter but flickering which I think is a strong argument. As another poster has mentioned it also helps if you put current beliefs in the time perspectif. I'm reminded about what ray said in CoC about that current truth can become past truth by new truth and that the concept of truth looses its meaning.
If you had taken bloodfractions before 2000 you would be disfellowshipped but not if you do so today. And you are also not reinstated now because you were right all along. Even if you where one of the annoited through which they believe new light is comming you would still be disfellowship prior to 2000. This is so irrational to me but they just can't see that.
I read this point on the forum some time ago. I believe it was Auld Soul who wrote it. But, I could be wrong about that.
What mistakes did the first century christians make after Jesus sent the helper (Holy Spirit) to them?
All of their mistakes and misunderstandings about what Jesus said and meant happened before the Holy Spirit came and made all things clear.
John 14:26 "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (NIV)
There was a running disagreement between some regarding physical/spiritual circumcision, however, that wasn't something they decided one way and then changed their mind on nor was it something individuals were kicked out of the congregation for.
There may be other scriptures that are more pointed that I can't think of right now.
If there is a witness rebuttal to this argument I would love to hear it so I can think of a rerebuttal.
Use their own words....
*** w52 7/15 p. 430 ‘Keeping Strict Watch on How We Walk’ *** Some, seeking to find justification for their careless conduct, point to the mistakes that faithful men of old made, such as Noah, David and others. But these overlook the fact there is nothing to indicate that those servants of God repeatedly erred in these respects.---- And these deflections were written down so that those coming after them who erred in like manner might take comfort and hope in God’s mercy, but not to excuse sinning or to justify laxity.—Rom. 15:4.
