Posts by Tech49

18

Tech 49: My Tripping Point, Part 2

by Tech49 in

after reading some of your other posts and experiences, especially regarding the elder's school, i am reminded of part 2 of my experience down the rabbit hole.. the last elder's school i attended was in 2011. i remember vividly the 3 day event.

i remember vividly being bored out of my mind!.

as has been stated by others, the hours of monotone counsel and examples and experiences were continually beating on your brain with the usual stuff:.

Tech49

Here's a little more about me personally, maybe it will help fill in some of the blanks.

I was mostly born-in, baptized in 1984 at 16. Ministerial servant around 1996 or so. Served as an elder since 2005. Have served as CBSO, School Overseer, and Secretary most recently (last 4 years, in addition to CBSO when it was still around). Helped in the forming of a new congregation in 2010, as Secretary. Served on the RBC for probably 20 years, EXTREMELY active in it in the 90's, less so in the last 10 years, only because my young family was more important.

Up until about 2 years ago, I was a black-and-white kind of guy. You either played along, or you didn't, plain and simple. I played a part in weeding out some pretty nasty influences and genuinely BAD seeds from our congregation. It was a time full of stress and long nights, but it got done, and it needed to be done. I dont feel bad about decisions that were made, some people truly are deserving of a boot.

Moved to the newly formed congregation at the instruction of the CO. Was ok, but family and I just weren't into giving our every breath to it. At some point, we moved physically, and were in another congregation's territory, so moved our cards.

Now this was a good-ole-boy club like no other. We knew most of them, but it didnt seem to matter. They were NOT in the mood to reappoint me, even with a favorable letter, and took their sweet time until the CO came thru and asked what the problem was!? No problem, just waiting to see if he was "truly qualified".... They got their asses chewed on, I got the appointment, but from them on, I knew they were gunning for me.

The high-jinks started soon after that...........a few examples.... I was serving as the secretary, but the brothers would write letters and just have the he-coon COBE sign them, I would never see them until a copy was handed to me to "file". Judicial commitees were formed for stupid reasons, where they had no business, others would do obviously bad stuff (fornication, admitted to myself and another brother, face to face) and would never see a committee. 'it was handled". Elders and their wives would sign up to "aux pioneer", and then put in 5 or 10 hours, and be the "exemplary pioneers" of the day! Made me ill. One assistant CO told me that I was not being an example, if no one from my family signed up to "pioneer" for the 30 hours. Didnt matter if we knew we couldnt do it, just the fact that we didnt sign up showed our "attitude". (see my post on the other forum about Hours and Time, linked to here n the General Discussion area). About that time I was pretty much fed up. This whole thing was a big egotistical show.

Then the good-ole-boy club started to come after my family, picking on them, demeaning them, gossipping, spreading rumors...it got pretty heated, Ms. Harper was PISSED! We had EMAIL PROOF of the elder body spinning rumors and lies. Even had a meeting with the CO at his next visit, he told them to knock it off and apologize to my family..... Didn't happen.

I could see that they were gunning for me, just waiting to trip me up and get something to find as a basis to DELETE me, and have the pleasure of announcing it from the platform.

The family was hurting, we knew it, and something needed to change. Meeting attendance fell to about 50%, I turned down assignments, cancelled Public Talks that were scheduled out. Told the COBE that I just couldnt do it right now, our family was having real "troubles" putting the energy into this. I was hoping to get some help for the family, to get a sheperding call on us all, as it was obvious we had hit a wall, figuratively.

NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING. Where were my "friends", my "fellow Elders"? Too busy to care, too busy going on vacations, too busy buying toys and spending money, having wine parties and "exclusive" dinners with their little groups.

We decided, as a family, to move to a neighboring congregation to restart, to find some joy again, to get away from the backstabbing, petty pricks and their families. This wasn't the way I wanted to serve, and this was not the group of brothers I would serve with. In an impromptu "meeting" to discuss the issues at hand (which I suddenly discovered was more of a Remove-Your-Priviliges meeting) the brothers told me that because of my wife's attitude (she was pretty hot about all this, and wasnt afraid to tell them!) and the fact that we wanted to RUN from OUR problems, they would see fit to NOT send a letter of recommendation with me. Oh, but if we STAYED, then NOTHING would change (appointment-wise), we will help you, WE PROMISE!! Truth be told, I knew that's exactly what they would do, and they would be denied the FUN of deleting me.... I resigned before they could say anything else, walked out. Checkmate, fools.

I had "brothers" who were my friends stab me in the back so fast I couldnt believe it. Suddenly, I was out of the "club". Sick. Just made me ill. Our "friendships" were truly anything but. I felt a HUGE sense of betrayal.

It was shortly after that, within the last year or so, that I really sat down and started to research all the questions that had been on my mind, to allow myself to look at "apostate" websites. I found more than I bargained for, and my mind has been a swirl of thoughts for many months. I see the falsehoods, the coverups, the outright blatant lies, and the willingness to be "blind" on the part of well-meaning people. Lots of other stuff too. But I am done. Won't do it anymore. Spent way too much of my personal life, time, energies, and money supporting a business entity that prints literature and controls people.

So anyways, here we are, MUCH happier with the lack of responsibilities, no more "pressure" to please people. We do what we want, when we want to do it.

Faded? No, but fading. Coasting.

Wife and I are working slowly to retrain our kids to think carefully, clearly, and to see the entire picture before they make decisions. Teaching OURSELVES to do the same is a little harder sometimes, but it feels good to be awake.

The biggest "lightbulb" moment we have had is this: If you are not a positive influence on our family, then we don't need you in our lives. I dont care if you are extended family, congregation members, elders, or an entire organization. Out ya go!

PM me anytime.

88

Former Long Time Elder: Why I am still in

by James Jackson in

jw
friends

a customer on my route with whom i have had some lively debates was his number 1 complaint is that "the witnesses have so many rules".

last month i agreed with on this issue.

he asked why the change, i told him that i have been doing some soul searching.

Tech49

James Jackson, please feel free to send me a Private Message (PM) if you want to talk.

I would be honored to hear more of your personal experiences.

Jack Harper, Tech49

28

Where are all the new members?

by Captain Obvious in

with the changes in doctrine being fully unveiled at the dc this year, i expected many to wake up.

the dcs have been going on for a month now, i fully expected to be welcoming new members by now!

am i just being impatient?

Tech49

I lurked for a year before summoning the courage to post amongst you mentally-diseased folk!

I am not an uber-poster, I post on topics that strike a cord, or that I feel I can contribute to. Dont ever think for a minute that things are quiet out here in cyberspace. People just like me are watching........... learning.............. taking it all in, figuring out what to do with it all.

When they are ready, they will chime in.

88

Former Long Time Elder: Why I am still in

by James Jackson in

jw
friends

a customer on my route with whom i have had some lively debates was his number 1 complaint is that "the witnesses have so many rules".

last month i agreed with on this issue.

he asked why the change, i told him that i have been doing some soul searching.

Tech49

James, I would like to chime in here, as we are both new here, and to this whole experience.

My 2 kids are both teens and I struggle with the same feelings as you. Here's my take on it all:

As someone else mentioned, you should have ALREADY instilled morality in your kids. No doubt, you have. But there is, as was already mentioned, a big difference between morals and rules, especially when those rules come from men, many of whom don't have the best interests of your family in mind, and many who have NEVER EVEN HAD KIDS! Forcing rules on our kids does more damage than good, and hiding reality from them turns them into ill-equipped stepford-children. Anyone can make rules, but it's up to you to DECIPHER those rules and turn them into catalysts that form new adults.

So take everything with a grain of salt, meditate on it, let it sink in, then CAREFULLY plan your actions based on WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR FAMILY. What's best for me and mine may not work for you and yours. Visa Versa.

I know that, for me, to drop a "change-bomb" on my family right now would have terrible consequences. I have taught my children morality, and will never stop teaching them how to be honest, forgiving, caring people. They are truly wonderful young adults, very caring, incredibly smart, and yet very observant. But now, my focus is on teaching them HOW TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES. Present information to them in a way that will teach them to be analytical, to ask questions, and to make sure that things just "make sense". Their young minds have not been subjected to propoganda and b.s. for nearly as long as ours, so the clean-up process will be somewhat easier, especially with someone like yourself to "captain" thier ships, as long as you keep your eyes clear and focused.

Someone posted a link for me in another post of an elder's experience in de-programming his family, thru critical, analytical thinking and reasoning by means of Family Study times. (Maybe someone can repost that link for James).

I was impressed with his ability to understand that this is NOT a quick process,..... remember, it took you and your family YEARS to get where you are, it will take just as much time to get where you are going. Don't be swayed by some of the negative comments here.... alot of folks here are hurting, have been hurt, and can't fathom the responsibility you have. Everyone's circumstances are different, and none are less important or trivial by any means. You'll get there, my friend.

Wish you all the best,

Jack Harper, Tech49

18

Tech 49: My Tripping Point, Part 2

by Tech49 in

after reading some of your other posts and experiences, especially regarding the elder's school, i am reminded of part 2 of my experience down the rabbit hole.. the last elder's school i attended was in 2011. i remember vividly the 3 day event.

i remember vividly being bored out of my mind!.

as has been stated by others, the hours of monotone counsel and examples and experiences were continually beating on your brain with the usual stuff:.

Tech49

I am continually amazed at how much this affects me.

This entire experience, awakening to reality, is on my mind day and night. I go to bed thinking about it, I wake up thinking about it. Its almost as if new thought processes are forming....It's just crazy. Funny, I don't feel "diseased"........It does good to write some of it down, even if for no other reason that just to get it out.

My mind and heart are struggling to undo decades of fictional, psychological and behavioral training that is based on....... subserviance to MEN. I appreciate all of you listening, reading, and empathizing.

6

PARKING AT THE TACOMA DOME!

by clarity in

parking at the tacoma dome for jehovah's witnesses was.

evidently included in the cost of the rent.. >.

"by law, the wtbs was not to collect additional.

Tech49

I attended the DC at the Tacoma Dome for many years.

I always remember the "required" parking passes, purchased at the KH weeks in advance, for a "contribution" of $5.

Then, when I worked in Parking, we were asked to keep an eye out for cars to have their Parking Passes displayed, and to offer them for purchase if they didnt have one.

But then the obvious question: What if someone didn't have one, and didn't want to buy one? What do to?

Answer: Nothing, not like we can actually enforce anything. Then I knew it................ the Parking Passes were a sham.

Jack Harper

18

Tech 49: My Tripping Point, Part 2

by Tech49 in

after reading some of your other posts and experiences, especially regarding the elder's school, i am reminded of part 2 of my experience down the rabbit hole.. the last elder's school i attended was in 2011. i remember vividly the 3 day event.

i remember vividly being bored out of my mind!.

as has been stated by others, the hours of monotone counsel and examples and experiences were continually beating on your brain with the usual stuff:.

Tech49

Soon after this, there was a series of events in quick succession that culminated in my deliberate decision to quit participating in the charade of being an "Elder".

Ms Harper had been dealing with some minor health issues, and it was a little stressful, mentally and monetarily on the family. We don't have Health Insurance, so everything was out-of-pocket. In so doing, I was working extra, and she was unable to get out much do to some minor surgery, healing, the usual stuff. Her "hours" suffered, she was now a "low hour publisher". Given the circumstances at the moment, completely understandable!

Time for a CO visit, and the brother that showed up was a substitute, a fella about my age, and a real asswipe. His crap didnt stink, and he knew it all about it all! He was friends with alot of other old-timers, and was a little golden-child that could do no wrong. No kids, just him and his wife, reveling in his new "power" position.

Ok, so I sign up to go with him in service on Saturday, there's a few things I want to confide in him, maybe he can help alleviate some of my concerns and pressures.

Our BRIEF conversations ended up being about what I NEEDED TO DO, and that OBVIOUSLY, Ms Harper and I werent PRAYING ENOUGH, and not going out in FS ENOUGH!

I was soooo mad I could spit. Rather than offer to help, or attemp to understand our personal situations, all he could do was spout rules and regulations, and dictate what we weren't doing.

Later in the week, at the Friday Elder's meeting, he made a complete ass of himself.... He went around the room and asked EACH brother to explain his schedule for Family Study, and why it wasnt up to "standards". He made comments about how you couldn't be on an assembly program if your hair was too short...... what??? There were plenty more of these types of personal comments that were given the stamp of "law", and counsel. Many of the brothers were extremely uncomfortable, but none really said anything. It went on and on like this for 2 hours, and I was sick and tired of it. I could feel my blood pressure rising.......This boob was using his position to make personal attacks in an attempt to elevate himself.

Fortunately, our evening of fun ended soon after that, and we left. Feeling like we had just been whipped like stray dogs, several brothers decided to decline the invitation to attend Field Service on Saturday, myself included.

I went home and told Ms Harper all that had occured. I told her right then and there.............. "I am done with this. I cannot serve with these brothers."

It took only a few short months after that before I worked up the nerve to follow through with my decision, but honestly, it was the best decision I have made in a long time.

I know I am leaving out alot of details, but they will come to me in time, and I will help fill in the blanks as we go along.

18

Tech 49: My Tripping Point, Part 2

by Tech49 in

after reading some of your other posts and experiences, especially regarding the elder's school, i am reminded of part 2 of my experience down the rabbit hole.. the last elder's school i attended was in 2011. i remember vividly the 3 day event.

i remember vividly being bored out of my mind!.

as has been stated by others, the hours of monotone counsel and examples and experiences were continually beating on your brain with the usual stuff:.

Tech49

After reading some of your other posts and experiences, especially regarding the Elder's School, I am reminded of part 2 of my experience down the rabbit hole.

The last Elder's School I attended was in 2011. I remember vividly the 3 day event. I remember vividly being bored out of my mind!

As has been stated by others, the hours of monotone counsel and examples and experiences were continually beating on your brain with the usual stuff:

1. You're not doing enough.

2. You're not worthy.

3. You're materialistic.

4. Clean up the congregation. DF anyone that doesnt listen.

5. Listen to the "Mother" Organization, at ALL costs.

6. If you doubt, even for a second, something you hear from the FDS, then YOU are wrong! (Direct quote from my notes).

That alone (#6) was one of those "lightbulb" moments. It was only at that very moment that I asked myself...."why am I FORCING myself to do this?" The petty posturing, the politics, the "good ol boy" mentality, its all so fake and superficial that it is nauseating.

I remember leaving the 3 day "Spiritual Feast", feeling exhausted, not refreshed at all. This wasnt right. I was stressed, when I should have been elated! My mind was battling with my heart, and I knew deep down that this was the last time I would be at a school program for congregation elders.

40

Former Long Time Elder - Judicial Committees

by James Jackson in

when i first was appointed as an elder, i could not wait to be on a judicial committee.

it semed like most hearings invovled middle age men and women cheating on their mates because either they had married early or felt that were being neglected by their mate.

most times i felt i need to take a long hot shower after a hearing.. the toughest part was seeing these sweet young children grow up in "the truth", and now you are about to judge their future based on their repentance.

Tech49

James, I have participated in a few Judicial Committee meetings as well. I was always taught, by some very good brothers that I still look up to, that the brothers should not EVER ask for the gory little details, especially if it was a sister, sex was involved, etc etc. The deed was done, no matter the details, they werent important.

I was always taught to err on the side of Foregiveness, that's what Jesus would do, right? A key question I learned, to TRY and reason on someone's real heart condition..... was... Are they really WICKED, or were they just WEAK? VERY few people are truly wicked at heart. Angry, upset, full of emotion, lashing out, raving mad, sure. But wicked.... no.

On another side of the coin..... TRUE STORY:

I was the Book Study overseer for a long time, at the KH. Now, for those of you that don't know, if you are disfellowshipped, and want to attend the Book Study (when we still had it), you went to the KH. So I got 'em all. Some would come for a bit, then we would never see them again. Some were crazies, some were passing in the wind...

A few however, were different, and genuinely wanted to stay. It was sad really, but Ms Harper and I did what we could for them.

We would always include them in our "goodie nights"...... right before we concluded, Ms Harper would head to the back, and make a plate of goodies for the DF ones that had to make a break for the door, right after the "amen". She always met them at the door, gave them a plate, a smile, put her hand on their arm, and a quiet little "it was nice to see you here, see you again soon..."

Even on "non-goodie" nights, Ms Harper would casually take a bathroom break right before the closing prayer was said, and would just happen to be hanging out in the back when the DF folks would head for the door. She had plenty of good bathroom "conversations" with some of them too, during the bookstudy as well. We were always on the edge for that stuff, and got quite a few eyebrows raised at us, but no one EVER got in our face about it, they knew it was the right thing to do, even if they didnt have the guts to do it!

You would not believe what an impression that made! Several individuals commented later that sometimes our little efforts to just acknowledge them were what got them thru the day.

Speaking of that, I have always had a problem with the DF arrangement for that reason. These people arent DEAD for goodness sake! Nor are they invisible! Smile and say hi! Maybe they don't want to be a part of this stuff anymore, but they're still human!

I will ALWAYS acknowledge someone, with a wink, or a smile, or a nod, or whatever....... its cruel not to. CRUEL. Inhuman Assh***s. This isnt the stone age.

OK, sorry, got sidetracked there..... back to your regular programming.....

6

Tech 49: My Tripping Point, part 1

by Tech49 in

i have previously told a little about myself, and thought i would share a bit more.

my tripping point.

the point when you awaken from a dream.

Tech49

I have previously told a little about myself, and thought I would share a bit more. My tripping point. The point when you awaken from a dream. Remember the movie "Inception" ? The tripping point that awoke a dreamer was falling, an abrupt startle, something that just goes "POP" !

I was startled 'slightly' some 25 + years ago or so, as a senior in high school. You will note I said 'slightly'...... i fell back asleep, to truly be awoken completely only recently ( more on that later), but did not forget that very moment:

Here we were as Seniors, soon to graduate High School, looking forward to an unknown and exciting future. I was an honor student, my guidance counselor was constantly reminding me of the need to apply for scholarships, as they were readily available. I was VERY into architectual design, in an age when computers were just coming onto the scene. Exciting, fascinating times! I had an application in my hand for ITT Tech.

Then, one day, the local newspaper guy interviewed me, on the balcony deck of the office building. He took my picture, put it in the paper that week, with a brief story about an aspiring Senior. I remember his question clearly, I remember my answer, clearly. He even quoted my directly.

Reporter: "Tech49, where are you planning on going to college?"

Tech49: "oh, I won't be attending college."

Reporter: "Really, I am surprised. Why not? "

Tech49: "Well, I can't really afford it." ( lie, I knew I could get scholarships, probably a full ride if I wanted). ".... and besides, I can do much better on my own, I plan to start my own business..."

That exact moment has stuck with me for over a quarter of a century. I still have the newspaper clipping. I recall the exact way I felt at that very moment. My lips were moving, parroting the answers that had been ingrained into my head. College was unacceptable. Continued education was unacceptable. Despite above-average, way-above ordinary skills in computer aided drafting and engineering, I was telling a lie. My brain did not believe for a second what my lips were spewing. At that very moment, I knew what I was saying was B.S. I wanted to believe it, but I knew what was real and what was not.

I look at that young man in the black and white picture, and just shake my head. He was smart, full of life and a full future in front of him. He let other people dictate what his next few years were.

I blame my parents and the people around me for choking me, for taking that away. But I allowed them to.......

I have never forgotten the way I felt on that day, how foolish I felt, because I knew that I was tossing aside something big. I didnt dare admit it tho.

Fast-forward.......>>>>>>>>> Today, I work for myself, in an industry that is heavy reliant on those very skills I loved so much in high school. I do quite well, but the road to get here could have been so much quicker and faster. I wish so much that I had taken even just a few classes outside of High School to make myself better. Fortunately, at some point, I had a great conversation with an old man, on a jobsite one day, about 15 years ago. His advice was to make a plan for myself, and do it now. Start with what you love to do, and do it. Make a goal to be "here" in 10 years, "there" in another 10, and "there" soon after that. Before long...."it will be time to retire, and you'll be old like me!" Don't regret where you are, son."

I have always kept his advice in the back of my mind. I am sure he is long gone now, I don't even remember his name. But his advice still rings true.

We all can look back, and feel so stupid for the decisions we have made, or the ones that were forced upon us. But it does more good to learn from them, to realize that we CAN be more than mindless laborers, janitors, window-washers..... you get the point. Do what you love.

YOU are in control of you. Don't let anyone take that away from you, from today on. Those people or organizations we hate only have as much power as we give them.

It would take me another 25 years to fully awaken, to see reality.

Make a plan. Do it now.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE.

Jack Harper, Tech49