Hey Lisa!
total empathy from me! I have moved 28 times in 41 yrs. I didn't know there were gods specifically for moving...dang...I must not ever sacrifice good enough for them coz it never goes smoothly for me either....
Ravyn
Posts by Ravyn
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27*sigh* is it over yet?
by arrowstar inbefore i begin let me just say that this is just a rambling from a tired and scared gal, who in her heart knows that it's all going to be just fine.
i just need to babble for a bit and get it out of my system.. as some of you know, i'll be moving to a new apartment on saturday.
this came about because where i'm currently living has raised my rent beyond my means.
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23
Just finished reading COC whoa!
by Thunder Rider init took me over a month of reading every night before bed, but last night i finished reading crisis of conscience.
i was amazed by what i read.
the extent of disregard for peoples feelings and lack of human kindness to those who had given a major part of their lives to theocratic service, made me sick.
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Ravyn
'In Search of Christian Freedom' is Ray's second book. more detail than the first.
Ravyn
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23
Just finished reading COC whoa!
by Thunder Rider init took me over a month of reading every night before bed, but last night i finished reading crisis of conscience.
i was amazed by what i read.
the extent of disregard for peoples feelings and lack of human kindness to those who had given a major part of their lives to theocratic service, made me sick.
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Ravyn
I understand the fear of losing family. but there is a bigger picture. I have never seen anyone successfully get a loved one out of the Borg from the inside. Sooner or later honesty and integrity comes into play and someone has to admit that they have doubts at the very least. even the ones who kept a low profile had to eventually come clean with their loved ones. which proves to me that you can't stay in for someone else to get them out.
It took me a year to plan my physical escape after I was emotionally and mentally freed. I was not referring to people who are actively trying to plan their escape. I was talking about people who know what is going on and choose to stay becoz of power trips and ego. Those are the ones who disgust me. Not faders who are waiting for the opportunity to take their family with them. Altho I do believe there comes a time when you have to bite the bullet and take the risk and just quit- sooner ot later.
Ravyn
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23
Just finished reading COC whoa!
by Thunder Rider init took me over a month of reading every night before bed, but last night i finished reading crisis of conscience.
i was amazed by what i read.
the extent of disregard for peoples feelings and lack of human kindness to those who had given a major part of their lives to theocratic service, made me sick.
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Ravyn
wonderfully expressed Thunder.
I know CoC to be true because I knew most of the players personally. When I read the experiences it was accurate right down to how things were said by certain people that it was just totally undeniable for me. You cannot know those individuals without seeing the whole conversations and scenarios in your mind when you read the book. I had no doubt things really happened the way Ray said they did. I was there for some of it! (a child can be a fly on the wall so many times...)
after I read CoC and the subsequent In Search of... all my ideas about reform and any warm fuzzies I might have had dissipated like when the sun breaks thru the mist. I have been criticized for my hard stance on the value of even individuals in the Borg recently(see my thread on violent rage) but I find it difficult to believe that even individuals can go thru life in total denial. I did for years, but I also left to great personal loss and much pain and suffering. and the ones who know all this and still choose to stay--I have nothing but disgust for them.
It may have been the emotional scandals that slapped me awake--but it was the intellectual and doctrinal dishonesty and manipulation that kept me from looking back when I did leave. I could never consider going back to that. It is just so done for me.
Treat yourself extra good for the next couple of months Thunder, it takes a while for it to all sink in and there are alot of emotions that come up at the sheer purposeful betrayal that CoC uncovers.
lotsa love,
Ravyn
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48
ever feel violent rage toward BORG?
by Ravyn inpork chop and in_between_days seem to think i am the only one on this board who is bitter and feels occasionally violent toward the borg...what do you think?.
i have been called low life scum because i made a comment (after being provoked) about not caring if all jws died of antrax.
honestly, there are days i really feel that way.
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Ravyn
Hey Peeps!
I really don't have a problem with anyone(eg: Craig or Pork Chop or In_Between_Days) NOT feeling violent--- that is the whole point I was trying to make.....
WHATEVER you FEEL is ok. As long as it is not acted out in a way that harms anyone. I was objecting to the accusation that I was the only one who felt like this and was therefore some kind of monster. This was made even after I explained that I don't always feel this way! that was unfair and I considered it mean and an insult. It hurt my feelings even more. What I was trying to get acrossed was that when you start telling people how they SHOULD feel you get right back into the JW trap. You just have no clue how much I go outof my way in real offline life to be kind and giving---that is one of my biggest problems! I give so much that I give myself away and let others take advantage!
And I hope I have not hurt anyone elses' feelings with my comments about children, especially Prisca.
But I have a different view of life in general than most, and I know this. Maybe it comes from 3 NDEs and living with a chronic disease since I was 2 that has caused me to face death so many times I can't count anymore. But I don't think death is the end of it all. I just don't. And for me there are some people who are living today who in my opinion would be better off if they just cut their loses and accepted failure this time around. That does not mean I would ever actively participate in their starting over(death and reincarnation are REAL options to me)--but I do not have the same fear or sense of permanence when I consider such issues as abortion or murder or euthanasia as most people. For instance my mother.
My mother was the child of rape, born in 1928. She was taken from her mother and raised by her great aunt. Her mother married within a year and had 5 more children. She lived down the road from her, but never went home with her. Her earliest memory of her mother is of her coming to visit and embroidering and sending my mother in the house for some red thread. My mother tells of how excited she was to do this because she had just learned her colors and she was so proud to be able to show her mother the new knowledge. When she found the red and came back out with it, her mother was gone. It was trick- her mother sent her back in the house so she would not see her leave because my mother always threw a tantrum and carried on when she could not go with her. My mom was 3 yrs old. My mother started working in a factory when she was 16. She was engaged twice and they did not work out. When she was 25 she met a 17 year old punk who fell in love with her and became obsessed. She finally accepted his proposal because she thought it was the best she could do, all her friends were married with children by then. What she didn't know was that his obsession was the tell-tale beginnings of schizophrenia. After 9 yrs of trying to have a child unsuccessfully, she found out she had premalignant ovarian cysts.
She had 1 and 3/4 of the other ovaries removed. Miraculously in 6 weeks she got pregnant with me. By this time my schizo father had found religion and he decided to obsess out about that. His mother was a JW and he became SUPER-JW. He was in and out of mental hospitals, working night shift, and she was having a hard pregnancy. After I was born, she had post-partum depression. They moved next door to his mother so someone could take care of the baby. She treated me the same way her mother treated her--she didn't know any differently. 5 years later my sister was born very sick. She had spinal-meningitis and was mentally and physically affected. At age 2 I started having seizures and my health battles began. All this with a schizo husband who was a religious fanatic and lived a double life cheating on her. Her life was hell for the next 35 years. Then after their 35th anniversary(she stayed with him because JWs told her to) he left her for a younger woman and in order to stay in good standing claimed that she was a lesbian and that he 'caught' her having sex with her best friend of 50 yrs(non-JW). This ruined her reputation to such an extent that the only friend she had, after 50 yrs of friendship, rarely sees her now and all her nonJW family invite my father and his wife to the reunions and not my mother! He did not have to destroy her--but he did. My mother now lives with my disabled sister and her two teen age boys in a hopeless situation in a house falling down around her ears, in constant chaos and violence,--she is 75 yrs. old. She still treats me like she was treated. She won't let me help her, I have not seen her in 4 yrs now and she has never seen any of the homes I lived in, nor does she call me--I have to call her about once every couple of weeks.
Now you can give me all the platitudes you want, but life is not a greeting card. My mother's life sucks. She did not accomplish anything that could not have been accomplished in some other way with less grief and sadness. I would have been born no matter if it had been to her or someone else. I truly believe that. And I have prayed for my mother to die since I was 4 years old, because of all her pain and misery and the pain and misery she could not help but pass on. I see death as a release, relief, ooportunity to try again. So when I say things like 'let them all die'-including children- I am not talking about the end of existence. I am only talking about the end of this existence. It is out of my pain and suffering and empathy I say these things. I feel that some are better off dead, this time around. And for the people who tell me I SHOULD NOT make such judgements---hogwash. Everytime you step on a bug you make a "judgement". You cannot go thru life and not make judgements, you would have no value system or opinion or standards at all. The 'don't judge' crowd in my judgement, are just cop outs who refuse to see reality. I don't believe in the Ten Commandments or the Golden Rule(or the Law of Three or the Wiccan Rede for that matter) I believe I do have the "right" to judge by virtue of the fact that I am alive and carry the Divine spark(however that translates to you---'in god's image' maybe?) and anyone who needs to have there code dictated and enforced by someone else is passing the proverbial buck of personal responsibilty.
so I hope that explains somethings, I am not asking for anyone's approval, nor am I condemning(people get condemning and judging mix up all the time BTW) anyone elses' opinions(safe word for 'judgements'). it is just me.
Ravyn
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53
Samurai sword-wielding man terrorizes church full of Jehovah's Witnesses
by jgnat inthis is a local news item.
i doubt the link will last more than a day.
it appears the man had no connection to the jw's previously, he just considered them an "easy mark".
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47
Question to all JW
by JesusFreak88 in.
what makes the watch tower organization the authority of the scriptures?
the bible does not say any thing about a watch tower.
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Ravyn
it is not a well established fact that jesus existed. do some research on 'josephus' claims' and you will find out that they still cannot agree that josephus is the one who wrote the one-liner about jesus since it is not his style and there are no other references to back it up. there is also no proof that the apostles existed. however there is much proof that the idea of a god-man born to a virgin in a manger with animals watching and angels singing, who was baptized in water, performed miracles, had a last supper with twelve of his students and was crucified and resurrected was in existence for thousands of years before xtianity hijacked the myth. do a websearch on Mithras. see my post from a couple of days ago about Ass-Worshipping Hebrews. If you want to be a xtian, fine. but dont condemn JWs for believing in a different brand of xtianity than you do. if you want to make a good defense you need to know everything there is to know about your religion, including the stuff that is difficult to accept.
Ravyn
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47
Question to all JW
by JesusFreak88 in.
what makes the watch tower organization the authority of the scriptures?
the bible does not say any thing about a watch tower.
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Ravyn
who, other than the watch tower told you this, because if only the watch tower told you this than how can you know that there interpretation is correct?
yes exactly. JesusFreak--who other than the Bible told you it was inspired of the only true god? who other than the god of the Bible told you that he was the only true one?
I think you might be mistaken about this forum slightly...looks like you might just fit in pretty well!
Ravyn
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48
ever feel violent rage toward BORG?
by Ravyn inpork chop and in_between_days seem to think i am the only one on this board who is bitter and feels occasionally violent toward the borg...what do you think?.
i have been called low life scum because i made a comment (after being provoked) about not caring if all jws died of antrax.
honestly, there are days i really feel that way.
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Ravyn
Pork Chop and In_Between_Days seem to think I am the only one on this board who is bitter and feels occasionally violent toward the Borg...what do you think?
I have been called low life scum because I made a comment (after being provoked) about not caring if all JWs died of antrax. Honestly, there are days I really feel that way. Am I the only one? Or am I just the only one honest enough to admit it?
I had enough of the namby-pamby child worshipping ninnies who always knew just exactly what you SHOULD be doing when I was in the Borg. Dolphin-safe tuna sandwiches and 2 % milk for lunch, driving minivans and and listening to Celine Dion cds...........:: shivers :: bleh
and don't misunderstand me--you all are smart enough to know the kind of person I am describing without taking offense unless the shoe fits! So don't waste your time with the 'hey I drive a mini-van!' responses.
I am not a socio-path or psycho-path. But I am honest and I am human and I am not afraid of anger or hate or negative emotions and I laugh at things like pink mummies with samurai swords terrorizing JWs. And the Three Stooges and Ren and Stimpy.
And I am so sick of hearing about the 'poor' children of JWs. There are poor children everywhere in this world! Do something about it!
(I am NOT talking about children who have been molested or abused. What kind of a monster would not be sympathetic to that? I AM talking about people who worship children and put them on pedestals higher than they need to be. My husband was one such worshipped child and he is still paying for it. He battles narcisism and selfishness and ADHD and all the other traps needy parents put on kids when they worship them and teach them that they are the gods of their narrow little worlds! He has been in therapy for years to get over what his parents did to him and he was not even raised a JW. People who try to protect children from the realities of life are not doing them a favor. A parent's one and only job is to prepare the child to be a successful adult--anything less is failure.)
ok that rant is over.
how about some honesty for a refreshing change? am I the only one who feels bitter and violent and angry and hatred for the Borg? am I the only one who feels like the ones who know better and stay in anyway should be shot(NOT talking about those who are planning their escape--talking about the ones who compromise their integrity for ease and comfort)? am I the only one who sometime feels like every JW is just a waste of precious natural resources? (Incidentally I fell like this about alot of people not just JWs, but JWs are the topic here aren't they?) come on I dare you! be honest!
Ravyn
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Should The Watchtower Be Blamed For Everything Bad Happening In Your Life??
by minimus inat times, i read some watctower apologists complain here that everyone blames the watchtower society for everything or anything negative in their lives.
sometimes, because of who is expressing this view, a few might jump on the bandwagon and attack the poster.
but i wonder whether or not we at times need to deal with our own negatives about ourselves.
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Ravyn
Min:
short answer?
no.
longer answer?according to who's definition of "good" and "bad" ? do the JWs have a different definition from any other xtian religion? the things that are different about the JWs belief compared to any other xtian religion are the things we are on here complaining about! otherwise they are the same as any other xtian group. so it is my opinion that any xtian group would have worked for the one seeking something from xtianity, giving consideration to their own particular likes and dislikes.
the very things that make JWs unique are the things that are the most criminal about them. it is a worthless belief system.
and thanks for the sympathy--Special K and Cathy, sometimes I need it. It was one of those weekends---trying to figure out how to pay the bills this month and squeeze in a visit to the in laws(which just THRILLS me anyway.) Those are times I get bitter. When I have to shuffle bills and try to feed us on $30 for the whole week(he is pre-diabetic and ramen noodles dont work anymore....)
Ravyn