Posts by Oubliette

45

Geoffrey Jackson of the GB to give a talk in Australia this weekend

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

it's being piped from australia bethel to all the kingdom halls in australia.

apparently the meeting this sunday will go for 3 hours.

anyone here gonna listen/attend?.

Oubliette

I thought all the GB members were subject to arrest in Austraila after failing to appear in the Stephen Unthank trail last year!

Maybe I'm remembering it incorrectly.

9

You Might Be a Jehovahs Witness if

by StinkyPantz2.0 in

.

if a pioneer is not a stereo.. if new light never requires batteries.. if a tract has nothing to do with land.. if the new system isnt a car stereo.. if a great crowd isnt an easy to please audience.. if the friends are people you may or may not know.. if you can have a bible study without pulling out a bible.. if memorial day isnt in may.. if starting your time has nothing to do with getting paid or going to prison.. if you spent five days at a baseball stadium, and never saw a single pitch.. for more click here..

Oubliette

If you are a poolman, a janitor or a window cleaner but own more than three suits!

23

WHY TRUST "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE"

by Oubliette in

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Oubliette

Ding, yeah, they can't even get their own story straight, but for the most part it doesn't matter for the reason you observed.

Ironically, for as much noise as JWs make about "The Truth" and the importance of "accurate knowledge" belonging to their organization has nothing to do with either of those things: Listen, Obey and be Blessed!

Or in other words, "Sit down, shut up and do what we're telling you."

23

WHY TRUST "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE"

by Oubliette in

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Oubliette

Thanks all for your comments. Here are a few specific responses:

Wholly, You're welcome! I'm hoping that some lurkers are reading this too.

wha happened?, Exactly! It's a classic example of Orwellian doublespeak when a "slave" is actually master over the R&F Witnesses.

breakfast of champions, yesidid, alecholmesthedetective, Thanks for the words of acknowledgement and support.

zeb, Good point. Apparently Jesus "invisible presense" is equivalent with non-involvment in the WTBTS.

Larsinger58, Interesting points, although I think thread hijacking is poor form. BTW, you apparently misunderstand my purpose in writing. Please see my comment to Wholly at the top of this post.

ÁrbolesdeArabia, I'd be interested to hear the response from you JW-apologist associate. Don't hold your breath expecting anything rational. The "Famous Scholars of the Watchtower" as you call them have created a "theology" so convoluted, so contradictory and so confusing that they can't unravel it without creating more of the same. Their delusional ramblings would be little more than a religious curiousity if it were not for the very real fact their policies and practices have adversely affected countless lives.

konceptual99, Your wife's response is sadly typical. It demonstrates how easily the average JW will excuse in their own religion the exact kinds of illogical, contradictory teachings which they eagerly point out in other religions as proof of their being false.

The problem is that JWs are too invested emotionally, whether by time committed to the beliefs, by familial ties and supposed friendships or all of the above, to take a stand over something as easily dismissed as confusing and contradictory teachings.

Cognitive Dissonances is a bitch.

23

WHY TRUST "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE"

by Oubliette in

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Oubliette

In 2005, the Watchtower publication, Organized to Do Jehovah's Will (OD), gave us this powerful reason for trusting the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” (FDS):

WHY TRUST "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE"

There are many reasons to have complete trust in the slave class. First and foremost, Jesus has appointed them over all his precious "belongings." This is a clear indication that he has complete trust in them. - OD, p. 18 – [Italics in original]

That sounds really good, doesn’t it? Confidence inspiring, isn’t it? Or at least it seemed that way for the last 7 years or so.

Unfortunately, the recent "New Light" about the identity of the Faithful Slave has revealed a serious problem with this reason for trusting them. What is that? Consider this point from the very Watchtower article that explains this “New Light” explanation of the FDS, the July 15, 2013 Watchtower Study Edition:

WHEN DOES JESUS ARRIVE, OR COME?

A further consideration of Jesus’ prophecy indicates that an adjustment in our understanding of the timing of certain aspects of Jesus’ prophecy is needed. … So it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings, mentioned at Matthew 24:46, 47, also applies to his future coming, during the great tribulation. 1 - Watchtower, July 15, 2013, p. 8, paragraphs 17 & 18 – [Italics in original]

Whoa! Did you catch that?

The primary reason that we were given in 2005 for having "complete trust" in the Faithful and Discreet Slave has now been taken away from us. The reason for that trust was based on an event that has not yet happened! When we shine this "New Light" on the "Old Light" we find that the most important reason we were ever given for trusting the FDS doesn't exist, at least not yet, not now in the present. I guess we'll just have to wait until the Great Tribulation and see if Jesus actually does appoint them over his belongings to know if we can really trust them or not.

In the meantime, I think I'm going to proceed with caution and a healthy dose of skepticism.

Of course, many active JWs are only just now learning about this “New Light” and some probably won’t learn about it until it is considered in the WT Study in their congregations in the first week of September.

By the way, have you noticed that every time the WT publishes an "adjustment in our understanding" in an attempt to solve one problem with doctrine it usually ends up creating more problems? Why do you suppose that is? What does this mean?

1 - See also the Annual Meeting Report, November 9, 2012 on the official jw.org website where this important doctrinal change was first announced publicly. Under the subheading, When Does Jesus Appoint the Slave “Over All His Belongings”?, we read: “Jesus’ appointment of the “slave” over his “belongings,” then, must also be a future event. He will make that appointment during the great tribulation.” <http://www.jw.org/en/news/events-activities/annual-meeting-report-2012/>

108

July 15th Study Edition Is Up..

by confusedteenager in

jw
friends

not sure if anyone mentioned this yet, but yeah.

they just posted up the new watchtower...with the confusing new information.. time for me to go dive into this "new light" and try to see what sense it makes.

of course cedars already nicely did a run down for us.. .

Oubliette

FrankWTower: On paragraph 16 on page 18 of the third article, the second sentence states (about C.T. Russell and the first bible students): "These loyal men and women exposed false doctrines and spread spitirual truths."

Great point! So what exactly were those "spiritual truths" that Russell and his loyal associates were spreading?

I just found this thread from about a year ago that tossed around this question :

Is there ANY JW belief/doctrine that has remained the same from start to now?

I waded through it and have distilled these comments made by several posters on that thread:

Evidently, there are only two beliefs that JWs have maintained from Russell's time until now:

1. Soul Sleep, taken from the Second Adventists, which has two sub-beliefs:

No Hell
No Immortality of the Soul

2. Gentile Times ended in 1914 which came from:

An idea advanced by John Aquila Brown in 1823
Expanded upon in the 1830s by a farmer named William Miller
Later tweaked by Apollos Hale and Sylvester Bliss, (whoever they were)
Exposed as false in 1840 by John Dowling, (whoever he was)
Reworked by Second Adventists, such as Barbour after 1844
Then finally take over by Charles Taze Russell as an End-Times prophecy, with the Gentile times expected to herald the conclusion of Armageddon, not the beginning of the Last Days.

The conclusion of the matter then, all things being heard, is that practically EVERYTHING taught in Russell's time has been since discarded except two basic beliefs, one of which he got from another religion and the other conceived of and then twisted and mangled by a bunch of unqualified, self-appointed delusional crackpots!

Of these two remaining beliefs, the evidence is clear that the second is fantasy and the first is, from our perspective as living human beings, completely unverifiable either way.

So again, what exactly were those "spiritual truths" that Russell and his loyal associates were spreading? They could only be the ideas of Soul Sleep (no Hell and no Immortality of the Soul) and that the Gentile Times ended in 1914.

It should be noted that 1914 shouldn't really be included on this very short list. As noted in the last bullet point about the Gentile Times, what Russell and the early Bible Students believed about 1914 is completely different from what Witnesses believe today.

So essentially all that's left is that when you die, you are dead. That's it: the end. It's over. You're gone: Finis, sayonara, adios, hasta luego, see ya'! Isn't that a wonderful spiritual truth to be spreading door-to-door?

JW at a door. [Cheerily]: "Hi, good morning! I'm here to spread the Word of God today. Did you know that when you die, you're dead?"
Householder. [Angrily]: "Get the fuck off my porch you lunatic!"

And hell, (pun intended) JWs are not the only ones that believe that. As pointed out, that particular belief came from the Second Adventists. Come to think of it, that's what athiests believe too!

Curiouser and curioser ...

24

Under the New Light, Where is the Continuity?

by Ding in

under the old light, from 33 ce onward, there was always an anointed remnant on earth, and these constituted the faithful and discreet slave class whom jesus had appointed over his domestics to give them spiritual meat in due season.. but the new light is that the "anointed" were not the faithful and discreet slave after all.. in fact, according to the new light, jesus did not appoint anyone as faithful and discreet slave over his domestics until 1919 (not even the apostles or russell).. so according to the new light, who or what was jehovah's visible organization from the death of the apostles until 1919?.

who was authorized to provide spiritual food in due season?.

where is the continuity?.

Oubliette

Please stop trying to make sense out of nonsense. It doesn't work. Never has, never will!

26

It's Proof! Why We Can Trust the FDS (The OD Book Chap 3)

by ezekiel3 in

from the new organized to do jehovah?s will (od) pages 18, 19. this is from a new chapter (3) in the book ?trusting the faithful and discreet slave?.

why trust "the faithful and discreet slave".

there are many reasons to have complete trust in the slave class.

Oubliette

In 2005, the Watchtower publication, Organized to Do Jehovah's Will (OD), gave us this powerful reason for trusting the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” (FDS):

WHY TRUST "THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE"

There are many reasons to have complete trust in the slave class. First and foremost, Jesus has appointed them over all his precious "belongings." This is a clear indication that he has complete trust in them. - OD, p. 18 – [Italics in original]

That sounds really good, doesn’t it? Confidence inspiring, isn’t it? Or at least it was for the last 7 years or so.

Unfortunately, the recent "New Light" about the identity of this Faithful Slave has revealed a problem with this reason for trusting them. What is that? Consider this point from the July 15, 2013 Watchtower Study Edition:

WHEN DOES JESUS ARRIVE, OR COME?

A further consideration of Jesus’ prophecy indicates that an adjustment in our understanding of the timing of certain aspects of Jesus’ prophecy is needed. … So it is reasonable to conclude that Jesus’ arrival to appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings, mentioned at Matthew 24:46, 47, also applies to his future coming, during the great tribulation. 1 - Watchtower, July 15, 2013, p. 8, paragraphs 17 & 18 – [Italics in original]

And so, the primary reason that we were given in 2005 for having "complete trust" in the Faithful and Discreet Slave was taken away from us in 2012. The reason for that trust was based on an event that has not yet happened! When we shine this "New Light" on the "Old Light" we find the most important reason we were ever given for trusting the FDS doesn't exist, at least not yet, not now in the present. I guess we'll just have to wait until the Great Tribulation and see if Jesus actually does appoint them over his belongings to know if we can really trust them or not.

In the meantime, I think I'm going to proceed with caution and a healthy dose of skepticism.

Of course, many active JWs are only just now learning about this “New Light” and some probably won’t learn about it until it is considered in the WT Study in the congregations in the first week of September.

By the way, have you noticed that every time the WT publishes an "adjustment in our understanding" attempting to solve one problem with doctrine it usually ends up creating more problems? Why do you suppose that is? What does this mean?

1 - See also the Annual Meeting Report, November 9, 2012. Under the subheading, When Does Jesus Appoint the Slave “Over All His Belongings”?, we read: “Jesus’ appointment of the “slave” over his “belongings,” then, must also be a future event. He will make that appointment during the great tribulation.” <http://www.jw.org/en/news/events-activities/annual-meeting-report-2012/>

19

NEW LIGHT: The WT Leadership has been wrong about their own identity for the last 93 years!

by Oubliette in

so by now, we all know about the "new light" concerning the "faithful and discreet slave" class being the governing body and just the governing body.

other "anointed ones" need not apply.

you've been summarily kicked to the curb.

Oubliette

Dismissing servant: This is not about theology/interpretation. It's about power over the organisation.

Exactly! And this is the ironically funny point: Doctrine actually doesn't matter. It's not about WHAT is true; it's only about WHO must be obeyed. This and other recent changes make it clear that if you're a JW you must believe whatever is published in the WT no matter how illogical, nonsensical, inconsistent, incoherent or contradictory to previous and/or current beliefs.

And when, not if, there are future "adjustments in understanding" you must believe them too just like you must believe these.

The really ridiculous thing about it is that the GB use this particular teaching to assert their claim to authority, but the fact that they have been wrong about their own identity for the last 93 years (according to their "theology") actually PROVES that the only power and authority they have is imaginary. But because JWs believe it, it is "real" to them and they submit to it as if it really exists.

Looking in from the outside we see a fantasy world of groupthink delusions.

It would be laughable if it didn't have such damaging affects on the lives of so many.

Think About It: Great advice to lurkers. Hopefully they'll think about it!

49

Is There Other Sites Many Members Are Bailing To? M.I.A JWN People, where did they go?

by ÁrbolesdeArabia in

since i joined the forum i noticed more than a few people have not been posting, what is going on?

i received a couple of emails from other groups asking me to join their new forms with a promised technology, i wondered how they got my email address and thought it be strange.. .

people during the first year of a great change might post daily to any support chat or message board they feel is going to aid them.

Oubliette

Who are you missing?