ok, since it was so easy to get on here i'm assuming that this place is also over run by wts critics...but anyway!.
i've read a plenty of wt mags and got sucked in enough by the whole thing to go to a few meetings and do a bible study( which i wouldn't really call a study, since we just read one of their books).i soon broke of the whole thing and didn't even read another mag for about 6 years...6 months ago i wandered into h20 out of curiosity and ended up reading up on the arguments against the wts.. i have a simple question, and its probably very naive to ask this...but why is wts so afraid of debate?...there are plenty of sites arguing against the wts...but none for, apart the official site which doesn't address the issues raised by so called "apostates" anyway.. if the wt has the the truth why dont they just refute the the arguments against them instead of shutting up shop and labelling anyone who questions them an "apostate?
" or from satan or something.. i'm really beginning to think that all this wt business is just waste of time, that if i were to go to kh and ask questions that i have, i'm more likely to be labelled a trouble making agent of satan rather than be taken at face value as someone with serious questions.
Time for Humor!!!
May God defend me from my friends. I can defend myself from my enemies. Voltaire
Man invented language to satisfy his deep need to complain. Lily Tomlin
I don't know whether the world is full of smart men bluffing or imbeciles who mean it. Morrie Brickman
Shall we take a civil breather? I'm ready.....
[url] http://www.ripnet.org/navoy.htm[/url].
i know there are examples of this type out here.
trust me i will find them
Dear Maxee,
You are a strange, fascinating person......
where do you find this stuff?? It's always interesting, sometimes downright bizarre.
You "click" well, dear.
"the greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism.
" --sir william.
osler .
Hey, Zep,
Are you a woman?
I'm not going to let a group of power-mongering men with short penises tell me what to do. Doris Allen
Are you a man?
Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion. L. Ronald Hubbard (founder of Church of Scientology)
All the religions have lied to you....They say that if you give here, you will be rewarded in heaven. Neither do they have any evidence of heaven nor do they have any evidence from millions of people who have gone before - just a single letter, a postcard - that "Yes, what these priests are saying is right." Discourses
Waiting ...... your turn........
ok, since it was so easy to get on here i'm assuming that this place is also over run by wts critics...but anyway!.
i've read a plenty of wt mags and got sucked in enough by the whole thing to go to a few meetings and do a bible study( which i wouldn't really call a study, since we just read one of their books).i soon broke of the whole thing and didn't even read another mag for about 6 years...6 months ago i wandered into h20 out of curiosity and ended up reading up on the arguments against the wts.. i have a simple question, and its probably very naive to ask this...but why is wts so afraid of debate?...there are plenty of sites arguing against the wts...but none for, apart the official site which doesn't address the issues raised by so called "apostates" anyway.. if the wt has the the truth why dont they just refute the the arguments against them instead of shutting up shop and labelling anyone who questions them an "apostate?
" or from satan or something.. i'm really beginning to think that all this wt business is just waste of time, that if i were to go to kh and ask questions that i have, i'm more likely to be labelled a trouble making agent of satan rather than be taken at face value as someone with serious questions.
Hey, Simon!
Glad to see your civilized humor here.
True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country. Jurt Vonnegut
Now, for the serious sarcasm:
It never occurred to Stalin that the British electorate would remove Churchill from office in the very moment of victory. The result not only surprised but startled him, confirming his rooted belief that elections where the outcome was not guaranteed were too dangerous to be allowed. Alan bullock
When Stalin says "dance," a wise man dances. Nikita Krushchev
Did your people really vote Churchill out of office after WWII?
History will be kind to me for I intend to write it. Winston Churchill
Edited by - waiting on 16 June 2000 20:7:20
how many inconsistancies can you find?
how many things are not told about the religion in this lesson?
also check out the note at the bottom of the page.. "knowledge that leads to everlasting life".
Hey, Maxee,
I've spent a decent amount of time at Shaun's site. A lot of good information about the Society can be found there. Thanks for the click.
You read a lot more into the WTBTS paragraphs than I did. I must be tired.
i've found it quite interesting talking to several young ones who lead double lives.
the sad thing is, i don't find these ones so wicked.
i find them basically good kids who got a little messed up because no one had any time for them, or attempts to relate were rather lame.. the irony is that while talking to one while he was smoking a cigarette, out of nowhere he says, "but i still believe its the truth".
After my daughter was disfellowshipped, and my memories started awakening, I sought a therepist. I also encouraged my daughter to go also - at another time. Because mother/daughter, disfellowshipped/active JW, incest, etc. were intertwined - it was difficult.
But one of the things the therepist brought out (she was quite familiar with JW's - I don't know why), was that forgiveness (and getting over guilt) for rebellion was hard to achieve in our religion. For instance, Catholic has sex, feels bad later, goes to confession, says prayers, gets on with her life. JW has sex, feels bad, goes to elders, but somehow it is quite difficult to ever get over the guilt, even if no one ever finds out. This is assuming that both girls have a conscience and honest heart.
The guilt is the hard thing to ever get over. And we are drilled on that one.
I was in the hospital in '76 for panic attacks, just for tests and all. The neursurgeon visited me after reviewing brain scans. He told me that he felt there was nothing physically wrong with me. "Do you mean to tell me that this is just nerves?" I demanded. His reply: "Why do you think people kill themselves? We're all just nerves."
Made me stop and think. Suicide, I think, is just wanting the nerves to stop.
ok, since it was so easy to get on here i'm assuming that this place is also over run by wts critics...but anyway!.
i've read a plenty of wt mags and got sucked in enough by the whole thing to go to a few meetings and do a bible study( which i wouldn't really call a study, since we just read one of their books).i soon broke of the whole thing and didn't even read another mag for about 6 years...6 months ago i wandered into h20 out of curiosity and ended up reading up on the arguments against the wts.. i have a simple question, and its probably very naive to ask this...but why is wts so afraid of debate?...there are plenty of sites arguing against the wts...but none for, apart the official site which doesn't address the issues raised by so called "apostates" anyway.. if the wt has the the truth why dont they just refute the the arguments against them instead of shutting up shop and labelling anyone who questions them an "apostate?
" or from satan or something.. i'm really beginning to think that all this wt business is just waste of time, that if i were to go to kh and ask questions that i have, i'm more likely to be labelled a trouble making agent of satan rather than be taken at face value as someone with serious questions.
Dear BabylonSmurf,
Welcome to our chat place. Simon is the originator and he is English. He also set the pace and tone for us all when he strongly suggested this be a "civil forum for all persons."
May I ask what in the world, as a new poster, gives you the right to speak for "the majority of us" here?
I do not share your views, nor would I insult another person by calling their religious views infantile. Personally, to insult someone because they have an opinion different from yours, and not necessarily wrong, is the infantile behavior.
I suspect by your name, Smurf, that you're of younger age, please remember your manners and come back.
I happen to share some of Marion's views, and no one that knows me would suggest I'm infantile. They would suggest other things about me, I'm sure.
ok, since it was so easy to get on here i'm assuming that this place is also over run by wts critics...but anyway!.
i've read a plenty of wt mags and got sucked in enough by the whole thing to go to a few meetings and do a bible study( which i wouldn't really call a study, since we just read one of their books).i soon broke of the whole thing and didn't even read another mag for about 6 years...6 months ago i wandered into h20 out of curiosity and ended up reading up on the arguments against the wts.. i have a simple question, and its probably very naive to ask this...but why is wts so afraid of debate?...there are plenty of sites arguing against the wts...but none for, apart the official site which doesn't address the issues raised by so called "apostates" anyway.. if the wt has the the truth why dont they just refute the the arguments against them instead of shutting up shop and labelling anyone who questions them an "apostate?
" or from satan or something.. i'm really beginning to think that all this wt business is just waste of time, that if i were to go to kh and ask questions that i have, i'm more likely to be labelled a trouble making agent of satan rather than be taken at face value as someone with serious questions.
Dear Ms. Marion,
Thank you for your comment - I apologize in assuming you were pulling our computer leg. I do not apologize for saying that your sarcastic, humourous, quotes are better than mine.
I, on another thread, answered a post saying I did not want to sound like Friend, but I didn't quite agree with what was being said, or colored, about the Society. I was sarcastically made fun of by the following two posters. I felt I had made a legitimate post to another's legitimate post, it surprised me.
I didn't realize that this, perhaps, is becoming an x-site only. I'm not - just sitting back thinking and reading. When I make my choice, I believe I should be allowed to make it freely - from persons on both sides of the fence. I can sit on my fence as long as I can stand the stupid pointed ends. The only thing being damaged is my own butt.
One new poster several weeks ago made the point that we seemed rather "thin skined" here when devout JW's come to visit. I believe it was Red Horse who answered this person by saying that we really weren't - but some strong JW's come on strong. Well, I think JW's of any sort, particularily if they're civil, should be able to comment - without a sarcastic dismissal following the post.
This is a good, open, place. I hope it stays that way so we can all enjoy discussing matters which we feel important.
i've found it quite interesting talking to several young ones who lead double lives.
the sad thing is, i don't find these ones so wicked.
i find them basically good kids who got a little messed up because no one had any time for them, or attempts to relate were rather lame.. the irony is that while talking to one while he was smoking a cigarette, out of nowhere he says, "but i still believe its the truth".
Hey, Thorn,
Look at most teenagers in most religions. Fact is, most teenagers feel it is their duty to rebel, against any and all things. I think it's programmed - rebellion so that they will, finally want to move out - and by then their parents will be happy to help them pack.
As for being raised witnesses, yes, it's probably programmed, but the same can be said for Baptists, Catholics, etc., can't it? Most parents try to raise their children in the faith that they are in. Very few parents are "enlightened" and allow their children complete freedom to choose their own religion - particularily as teenagers.
Personally, I feel the biggest problem is not realizing that smoking, drinking, even sex are not the worst things in the world to deal with. The problem is, if the child is rebellious - he is not dealt with, as you said, but cut off. Then the child is more rebellious, but still remembers his roots, as we all do.
It's not just the Society's fault - it's all of our faults, including the teenagers. I'm a parent - I know.
My daughter has been disfellowshipped for 10 years, been to other churches, and still feels that the Witnesses are closer to her expectations than Presbyterians, Baptists, etc. Go figure.
Edited by - waiting on 16 June 2000 9:24:54
when we think of the governing body in brooklyn do others like myself automtically think of them as the faithful and discreet slave?
haven't we been taught that they run the organisation known as the watchtower and bible tract society?
now its looks like i personally may have been wrong.. is it run by a group of legal rofessionals.
Ahhhhhhhhh,
I'm in sales also. I believe that's how I overcame my shyness. I used to be so shy or intimidated, at times, that big red marks would cover my neck. Dead giveaway.
Finally, I got over it. But when I talk to people, particularily when approaching someone at the KH, I found that most other people were shy, or reserved also.
A cool quote by Eleanor Roosevelt: "No one can intimidate you but yourself."
I really do try to remember that one.
