Irony of "Rebellious" Youth

Pathofthorns

I've found it quite interesting talking to several young ones who lead double lives. The sad thing is, I don't find these ones so wicked. I find them basically good kids who got a little messed up because no one had any time for them, or attempts to relate were rather lame.

The irony is that while talking to one while he was smoking a cigarette, out of nowhere he says, "but I still believe its the truth". He's not the only one who has said this. Several others who also have problems with drug use, fornication and other disfellowshipping offences say the same thing.

They all are not "informed", and neither do they really care. They just "know" or "feel" that its "the truth".

I found it rather interesting, and yet disturbing at the same time. What they learned from childhood has such a hold on them, yet the thing that has such a hold exercises such little influence in how they live their life.

Any thoughts?

Pathofthorns

Roamingfeline

Yes, I have a few thoughts on this. It's a darned shame that those kids have been raised with the "guilt machine". That's the tactics of the mind-control that teaches them that no matter what they do, it's never enough to please Jehovah. So even though they believe it's the truth, because it's all they've ever known, they never feel they can measure up enough to be a "REAL" JW. They feel like frauds. So they give up on themselves. It's a real travesty.

waiting

Hey, Thorn,

Look at most teenagers in most religions. Fact is, most teenagers feel it is their duty to rebel, against any and all things. I think it's programmed - rebellion so that they will, finally want to move out - and by then their parents will be happy to help them pack.

As for being raised witnesses, yes, it's probably programmed, but the same can be said for Baptists, Catholics, etc., can't it? Most parents try to raise their children in the faith that they are in. Very few parents are "enlightened" and allow their children complete freedom to choose their own religion - particularily as teenagers.

Personally, I feel the biggest problem is not realizing that smoking, drinking, even sex are not the worst things in the world to deal with. The problem is, if the child is rebellious - he is not dealt with, as you said, but cut off. Then the child is more rebellious, but still remembers his roots, as we all do.

It's not just the Society's fault - it's all of our faults, including the teenagers. I'm a parent - I know.

My daughter has been disfellowshipped for 10 years, been to other churches, and still feels that the Witnesses are closer to her expectations than Presbyterians, Baptists, etc. Go figure.

Edited by - waiting on 16 June 2000 9:24:54

Seven

waiting, You expressed some good food for thought
there, especially the part about being cut off. That is the absolute worst thing a parent
can do IMO. Personally, I have reached the limit as far as how much hurt I'm willing to take to keep the lines of communication open-no more. If this religion is more important to them then their own child, let "it" be a comfort to them in their old age. For my own health and well-being I'm moving on.

RedhorseWoman

waiting,

Very good points. It has always bothered me that someone who commits a "sin" is cut off. Presumably, disfellowshipping is supposed to result in the person's seeing how much they are missing so that they repent and regain acceptance.

However, in many cases the person requires more attention in order to overcome problems. Although the ruling against worldly therapists has been relaxed, it is still difficult for many people to seek this kind of help.

Especially in the case of teenagers, disfellowshipping serves no purpose. Teenagers are prone to testing the waters, and adding the huge amount of guilt and fear of abandonment does nothing to help them mature properly. The only thing I can see it accomplishing is to make them much more adept at lying.

In my own case, I didn't go through the rebellion stage as a teenager, but rather when I reached my mid-twenties. A lot of the problems I encountered were due to lack of any "worldly" knowledge...or street smarts. I found myself in situations that I could not handle.

The guilt and sense of failure was so overwhelming that I saw no way out but to attempt suicide. The elders through this whole thing were more concerned with how they looked to the "world" than with helping to comfort a sister.

waiting

After my daughter was disfellowshipped, and my memories started awakening, I sought a therepist. I also encouraged my daughter to go also - at another time. Because mother/daughter, disfellowshipped/active JW, incest, etc. were intertwined - it was difficult.

But one of the things the therepist brought out (she was quite familiar with JW's - I don't know why), was that forgiveness (and getting over guilt) for rebellion was hard to achieve in our religion. For instance, Catholic has sex, feels bad later, goes to confession, says prayers, gets on with her life. JW has sex, feels bad, goes to elders, but somehow it is quite difficult to ever get over the guilt, even if no one ever finds out. This is assuming that both girls have a conscience and honest heart.

The guilt is the hard thing to ever get over. And we are drilled on that one.

I was in the hospital in '76 for panic attacks, just for tests and all. The neursurgeon visited me after reviewing brain scans. He told me that he felt there was nothing physically wrong with me. "Do you mean to tell me that this is just nerves?" I demanded. His reply: "Why do you think people kill themselves? We're all just nerves."

Made me stop and think. Suicide, I think, is just wanting the nerves to stop.

Frenchy

, "but I still believe its the truth".

I, too have been puzzed by that expression when used by someone who has explicitly verbalized disagreement with WTS doctrine. This is fascinating to me becasue it's a contradictory statement.
"I don't believe it and yet I know it's true" is really what is being said. A witness is taught to accept the 'whole body of teachings' as 'the truth'. We are not allowed to be selective and yet... we have that strange, contradictory statement popping up now and then.

marion_nett

Very few parents are "enlightened" and allow their children complete freedom to choose their own religion - particularily as teenagers.

That, and the rest of this thread, is a good case against "child" (including teenager) baptism, IMO. (See? I do have some ...) I would absolutely croak if my son asked me if he could MARRY at age 12 or 13; and we're told making a dedication to God is the MOST serious decision one can make, yet we're asking (and allowing) the above-mentioned confused, hormonal, rebelliously-inclined ... CLUELESS teenagers (and younger) to make that decision? Then - bear the inevitable consequences (for many/most) of that decision when the "foolishness in the heart of a boy" and that "bloom of youth" thing kicks in.
Marion

Maxee

This can have dire consequences for some. I know personally it lead me to throw all caution to the wind as far as bringing my daughter up. Because of the boundaries imposed by the organisation I allowed my daughter to follow her heart and understanding. I felt a release of the restrictions and guilt that had plagued me due to what I now know are basic human traits not weakness or wronddoing as the society inculcated into me I wanted to protect her from the same guilt complexes. Unfortunately your words are a reality of the emotions one can feel exactly

I don't believe it and yet I know it's true" is really what is being said. A witness is taught to accept the 'whole body of teachings' as 'the truth'. We are not allowed to be selective and yet... we have that strange, contradictory statement popping up now and then.

Dangerous reasoning when trying to bring up a child. Conditioned to hate the world and non witnesses in it and particpating in the normal routines working etc, developing friendships with these ones who are not in the truth feeling guilty for liking the world .... Very hard to instil a sense of direction in a child when you believe the world is going to be destroyed My daughter is now 21 and thankfully she doesn't have that guilt but in a lot of aspects of her life I feel if only I had not carried all this guilt and fear with me whilst bringing her up than she maybe might have a clearer picture of a direction in her life.

I thank god we have have a beautiful communicative relationship and friendship. We are now healing each other.

Roamingfeline

Dangerous reasoning when trying to bring up a child. Conditioned to hate the world and non witnesses in it and particpating in the normal routines working etc, developing friendships with these ones who are not in the truth feeling guilty for liking the world .... Very hard to instil a sense of direction in a child when you believe the world is going to be destroyed My daughter is now 21 and thankfully she doesn't have that guilt but in a lot of aspects of her life I feel if only I had not carried all this guilt and fear with me whilst bringing her up than she maybe might have a clearer picture of a direction in her life.

Maxee,

Those are the exact feelings I have had about raising my own daughters, ages 23, 21, and 17. They were raised in this religion, and all have trouble making goals and having direction in their life, because NONE of them were ever taught that the system would get this far! I really regret that the most of everything in this religion. Teaching them that false "sense of urgency" that is the hallmark of a cult.

Hugs,
RCAT

Irony of "Rebellious" Youth

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