Posts by undercover

13

Community Outside of a Religious Setting

by What Now? in

jw
friends

this is the one thing that i have struggled with since leaving the organization.

i recognize the need and value of belonging somewhere, being a part of something, showing up weekly to a community where me and my husband and children are loved and utilized and incorporated and cared for.

a place where are my kids qualities are nurtured and encouraged , and then reigned in and developed when needed.

undercover

...wonder if I have done my family a great disservice by taking this away from them.

Seriously? A disservice? You've saved them from indoctrination into a cult. You probably saved them from later personality issues once they realize they're in a cult, and try to escape. You may have even saved their lives, should the blood issue ever arise down the road (hopefully not, but do you want to really face that crisis as an open eyed JW?)

Remember, the 'brotherhood' you were part of was based on everyone in the collective obeying the leadership. Remember how you looked down on 'weak' ones? Remember how you strived, but were never quite good enough, to be the perfect Christian family, spouse, publisher? It was all by design.

Once your eyes were open, and you saw the reality of being in this organzation, you were nothing to them. The leadership cuts loose those they can't control. You're 'friends' ... your 'brotherhood', obeying the leadership, cast you aside. They cast you aside as so much refuse being flung from a car window at 80mph. They don't care about you. They care more about obeying than they do people, just as they've been indoctrinated.

Be thankful that you saved your family from that life of servitude to a religious cult.

31

Why cant Judicial Committees be taped?

by HereIgo in

i have never understood this.

was it because of legal reasons?

i cant think of any other reason why it wouldn't be allowed, but i know the elders ask you repeatedly that you are not taping.

undercover

I was gonna say, 'who says you can't? If you want to record, record. You don't have to let them know.'

But then I read nicolaou's comment (and link), and I like it.

39

What's The First "Worldly" Thing You Did When You Exited The Cult?

by pale.emperor in

when you finally and officially exited the cult, whether it be by disfellowshipping, disassociating or fading - what was the first things you did that are considered "worldly"?.

for me, it was like crash landing on another planet that looked like earth but was completely different to the earth i knew.

i wanted to learn everything that i thought i already knew.. first things i did:.

undercover

For me, there was no 'line in the sand' going from 'in' to 'out'. It was a gradual thing. And as a fader, sometimes it's little things that are actually experssions of rebellion or freedom. Like, leaving at the break between the Public Talk and the WT Study. Then it's skipping Thrusday night meetings.

I remember the last time I went in service, and I quit early that morning, and said to myself that I was never knocking on doors again, trying to sell religion... and I stuck to it. So in a way that was the first thing, even before I had made the conscious decision that I was in a cult.

3

Contrast in styles - JW cart zombies vs. street preacher

by sir82 in

jw
friends

i work in a mid-sized us city somewhere east of the mississippi.

right in the exact center of the downtown area, at the intersection of the 2 primary streets, there is an interesting contrast of proselytizing styles.. on one corner of the intersection, a young guy has a handful of tracts from some "xyz ministry" or some such.

he belts out in a booming voice, every 3 or 4 minutes or so, "i have good news!

undercover

Well, from my nonpartial observation, they're both to be avoided.

But, in regards to how they each 'reach out' to the community, the street preacher has been accepted as part of the scene, and since he is pleasant to those passing by, they in return are pleasant to him. I doubt he has a very high conversion rate however.

The JWs, OTOH, are reaping exactly what they sow... apathy. They stand by their cart, never speaking, never giving greetings or even acknowledging those passing by. But - they have become accepted as part of the scene, just like the crosswalk sign you have to step around to cross the street.

13

WT 1/2017: "Why is the Bible sometimes misunderstood?"

by Schnufti in

the bible is designed to be understood by those who are humble and willing to learn.

jesus said to his father: “i publicly praise you, father, lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.” (luke 10:21) the bible is written in such a way that only those with the right attitude would understand its message.

people with a proud attitude—a common trait of “wise and intellectual ones”—tend to misunderstand the bible.

undercover

The Bible is written in such a way that only those with the right attitude would understand its message. People with a proud attitude—a common trait of “wise and intellectual ones”—tend to misunderstand the Bible. But people who read the Bible with the attitude of “young children”—humble and eager to learn—are rewarded with a better understanding of God’s message.

They've been saying this for years. I remember as a kid, if anyone who appeared 'too smart' or 'too proud', older JWs would pre-judge them as unable to accept the 'truth'.

It's a combination of 1) confirmation bias - JWs are mostly uneducated, mostly simple folk, so in theirs minds, and as confirmed by the WT leadership, only the humble, uneducated are drawn to the 'truth' of the Bible and 2) a red herring argument - using the question 'why is the Bible misunderstood' to conclude, without evidence, that 'wise and intellectual ones' (or 'smarter than your average JW') cannot be drawn to the 'truth' of the Bible (or in other words, make good, obedient JW robots)

30

Jesus walked into a bar...

by Slidin Fast in

he asks the barkeep for 13 glasses of water.

he turns to his 12 companions and winks....

undercover

A priest and a member of his flock are playing golf. During the round the man missed a putt, 'goddam it! I missed' says the man.

The priest replies, 'my son, please do not curse in the name of god'

'I'm sorry, Father, it won't happen again'

A couple holes later, the man misses another putt. 'Goddam it! I missed!' Again the priest rebukes him and tells him, 'if you curse like that again, God will strke you down with a bolt of lightening'. Again the man apologizes and promises to never curse again.

On the 18th hole, the man misses a birdie putt to end the round. 'Godam it!! I missed!'

Suddenly the sky grew dark, black clouds formed. A bolt of lightening flashed across the course. When the smoke cleared, there lay the priest dead on the ground, his clothes singed, smoke rising from his dead body. A voice from the heavens was heard, 'Godam it! I missed!'

66

When you were fully in, did you believe that you would not die?

by TTWSYF in

i know that it must seem silly to ask, but my brother and his family think that the big a will arrive before they die.

i tried to explain to my brother that everyone else who has ever lived in the past has died and only jesus has [physically] rose from the dead.. it is amazing that anyone could buy that line.

what crazy cult culture that could make people believe such nonsense?!.

undercover

I was raised in the 'truth' as our culty dub friends like to say. As a child and into my teens I never really questioned it. I did wonder at times how it was that the generation that I just happened to be born in would be the one to see this earth shaking event, and then be the ones to never experience death. On one hand, it was kinda 'cool' to never grow old and die; on the other, there was this lingering doubt... what if this isn't the 'truth'. And of course, as a fully indoctrinated JW, I pushed those doubts out pretty quickly, never allowed them to surface longer enough to gain a foothold.

But as I started doubting other doctrines this one kinda fell away without much consternation. Once you realized that the 'truth' was anything but, it went without saying that to believe that you would live forever was preposterous.

10

Jehovah's Love - or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Death

by undercover in

jw
friends

this idea was inspired by another post i saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone.

(i just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later).

wt doctrine basically says that jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of armageddon.

undercover

In last week's WT study, for example, they state that Jehovah has determined, far in advance, the exact date that Armageddon will occur. So there is no "delay" - he's waiting, not for more people to "join his organization", but rather, until his celestial alarm clock goes off.

Yea, they've always said, 'it's not delayed, it's on track' (even tho a lot of dubs don't subscribe to that exactly). But that actually makes for an interesting point. An all knowing, omnipotent god would have to know that the world's population would increase as it has. He is the ultimate mathmetician afterall. And knowing that the population would increase to billions, why would he wait that long, unless he's a sadist (don't answer that). He didn't wait too long from Adam to Noah to put a stop to things. At least the world's population was significantly lower back then.

And of course, that raises the question of just how ominpotent he really is, if he has to destroy everything every so often to keep his subjects in line?

It actually goes back to your comment,

Sometimes they say that, sometimes they say something different. The message changes depending on what point they want to emphasize.

they just make up shit as they go along. None of it really makes sense if you really ponder it long enough.

10

Jehovah's Love - or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Death

by undercover in

jw
friends

this idea was inspired by another post i saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone.

(i just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later).

wt doctrine basically says that jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of armageddon.

undercover

This idea was inspired by another post I saw (but forget who or where) referencing the mootness of delaying Armageddon now that the 1914 generation is gone. (I just skimmed over the post and thread, and didn't give it much thought until later)

WT doctrine basically says that Jehovah, through his undeserved love, allows wickedness so that people can hear, and accept, the 'truth', thus being saved from the destruction of Armageddon. Now, here's the problem. The longer Armageddon is 'delayed', the more human life is set up to be destroyed. Look at 130 years of WT existance. Assuming that this is the one true religion, it's apparent after 130 years, most people of this world aren't accepting that fact. Yet, this old system lingers and lingers, the population increases, more people join the ranks of those to be destroyed, while the ranks of the 'faithful' remain bascially stagnant.

The world population hit 2 billion around the year 1927. Had Jehovah destroyed the wicked in 1914, 1918, 1919, or 1925, as predicted and hoped for, then that's 5 to 6 billion people who would have never suffered destruction. Better to not be born than to have the rug yanked out from under your feet by a vengeful god.

Of what use is it to wait? The world population is increasing exponentially (compared to JWs anyway). Delaying - or allowing more time before, in JW parlance - Armageddon is not allowing 'more' people to be saved, but is adding 'more' people to the list to be destroyed.

Nice god you have there, Watchtower.