Posts by Saintbertholdt

21

When did the Watchtower start opposing evolution with respect to animals?

by slimboyfat in

the photo-drama of creation (1912) says that god directed the evolution of animals into their current "fixed" forms, but that humans were created directed.

the divine plan of the ages said the same thing.

(various editions late 1800s to early 1900s) the 1898 booklet on evolution opposes the evolution of man but doesn't discuss animal evolution.

Saintbertholdt

slimboyfat,

...and the earliest refutation I can find so far is 1950.

Which source does it come from? The 1950 booklet "Evolution versus the New World"?

22

Online Watchtower publications archives?

by slimboyfat in

years ago i remember there being a number of sites with pretty extensive archives of watchtower publications online.

can anyone direct me to the best current site for this material?

in particular i am looking for a booklet from 1898 called "the bible vs. the theory of evolution".

When did the Watchtower start opposing evolution with respect to animals?

by slimboyfat in

the photo-drama of creation (1912) says that god directed the evolution of animals into their current "fixed" forms, but that humans were created directed.

the divine plan of the ages said the same thing.

(various editions late 1800s to early 1900s) the 1898 booklet on evolution opposes the evolution of man but doesn't discuss animal evolution.

I left out the sentence just before:"The conflict between Evolution and the Bible has been sharp. Nevertheless, unnecessary friction has been generated.,Only in respect to man does the Bible declare a special,direct creation of God. The statements of Genesis in respect to the lower creatures rather favor something along the lines of specialized Evolution."

This sounds much much broader than what dubs refer to today as "adaptive evolution" within a species.

21

When did the Watchtower start opposing evolution with respect to animals?

by slimboyfat in

the photo-drama of creation (1912) says that god directed the evolution of animals into their current "fixed" forms, but that humans were created directed.

the divine plan of the ages said the same thing.

(various editions late 1800s to early 1900s) the 1898 booklet on evolution opposes the evolution of man but doesn't discuss animal evolution.

Saintbertholdt

The Jan 1885 wt p.7 describes evolution as a device of Satan.

Fascinating. P6 of the Photodrama of creation: "Only in respect to man does the Bible declare a special,direct creation of God. The statements of Genesis in respect to the lower creatures rather favor something along the lines of specialized Evolution."

So what happened? Did Russell have a change of heart?

17

My mom

by cognac in

jw
friends

i was just talking to my mom a few weeks ago.

she said, out of all her kids, i was the only one she didn't have to worry about as far as spirituality.

i always took a stand for jehovah.. she told when all of her kids were little, she gave us the option of not eating birthday cakes in school.

Saintbertholdt

Hi there Cognac,

I think you handled the situation very well.

Maybe at some point in the future she might approach you for some information.

21

When did the Watchtower start opposing evolution with respect to animals?

by slimboyfat in

the photo-drama of creation (1912) says that god directed the evolution of animals into their current "fixed" forms, but that humans were created directed.

the divine plan of the ages said the same thing.

(various editions late 1800s to early 1900s) the 1898 booklet on evolution opposes the evolution of man but doesn't discuss animal evolution.

Saintbertholdt

Hi Slimboyfat,

P6 of the Photodrama of creation:

"The Darwinian theory has disappointed those who swallowed it without a sufficiency of demonstration as to its truth. - (1 Timothy 6:20) Recent demonstrations show that every mixture of species and kind, even where partly successful means a reversion to the original standards within the third or fourth generation in plants, flowers, fruits and in animals. The correct thought would seem to be that under Divine supervision various orders of creation were brought to a state of development and a fixity of species, not to be turned aside nor thereafter altered."

Russell seems to be saying the evolution occurred up until a specific point in time and then stopped. As you pointed out he viewed mankind as a separate creation.

By 1927 J F Rutherford specifically states that the whole creation (excluding the stars and planets) only took 49 thousand years (this period refers to the "preparation" of earth) - Reference the Book called Creation 1927. Rutherford seems to give latitude to the idea that some animal evolution could have happened. He keeps to Russell's idea that human kind was a separate creation.

Here's where the problem comes in. Because of the 49 000 year limitation and because evolutionary timelines were becoming more clearly defined showing that much longer periods were involved, it seems as if the Watchtower organization had to abandon the position totally.

So between 1927 (Creation book) and 1967 (Did Man Get Here by Evolution or by Creation?) it seems as if evolution was discarded. I would say it probably also happened after Rutherford died in 1942.

I hope somebody else can narrow it down further.

14

Jonestown Survivor Quote

by cappytan in

jw
friends

"...when our own thoughts are forbidden, when our questions are not allowed and our doubts are punished; when contacts & friendships outside of the organisation are censored, we are being abused for an end that never justifies its means.

when our heart aches knowing we have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever forbidden if we leave, we are in danger.

when we consider staying in a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we have come to love, we are in a cult.

Saintbertholdt

Here's the audio recording where Jim Jones argued for the drinking of the Cyanide cool-aid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkookcrAnSE

5

Jehovah's Witnesses employ revolutionary new technology.

by username in

jehovah's witnesses announced today the use of hover boards to spread the good news of the kingdom.

in a statement released by a jehovah's witness spokesman from brooklyn headquarters.

he set out the use of this revolutionary technology.

Saintbertholdt

Where's my hoverboard and flying car?

Back to the future II lied to me.

38

A nuclear war take place and a 1/3 of the world population is wiped from the face of the earth.

by James Mixon in

how many of you would return to jehovah, wt?

better yet, how many jws would walk???.

i do believe it will happen one day....

Saintbertholdt

Really? Is there any growth in the WTS? Kinda thought they were stuck at around 8 million for some time now.

The growth rate is slowing but they're still on track for an average (not peak) of over 8.2 million publishers by 2020.

Historically the Watchtower has had its greatest growth in the aftermath of financial/political difficulties: Early 70's, post 1945 and post 1918.

But that is generally a trend for all religions. In turmoil people tend to turn to religion.

38

A nuclear war take place and a 1/3 of the world population is wiped from the face of the earth.

by James Mixon in

how many of you would return to jehovah, wt?

better yet, how many jws would walk???.

i do believe it will happen one day....

Saintbertholdt

Well the worse things get, generally the more growth the Watchtower organization experiences.

Regarding a third world war: Who knows. Its unlikely but certainly not impossible.

If the US/Russia/China ever get embroiled in a conventional war, the losing side would resort to nuclear weapons first. For reference see: The Nazi state and the policy of total war, 1943 onward.