startingover

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Posts by startingover

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  134

  Christians Please Explain

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since leaving all organized religion, all superstition, all acceptance of deity, i have a terrible time truly understanding 'religious' thought.. i really do.. how is it possible for thinking people to just accept, without proof, all they accept?

  this morning i overheard a conversation between two christians in a coffee shop.

  they say to me 'dad, what's wrong with just being a nice, good person?

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  startingover

  Sizemik said:

  What I don't believe defines me I guess . . . which is strangely opposite to those with a firmly held religious belief.

  What I don't believe . . . is that there is a higher power responsible for the way things are . . . with malevolence, benevolence, all knowing, all powerful. I don't believe in a God that rewards and punishes while presiding over this randomness. It can no longer make the slightest bit of sense to me on the most basic level. It has all the hallmarks of a human concept . . . inspired by human needs. Maybe it's fear of the unknown, fear of death, survival, the need to dominate, personal comfort, whatever.

  What I do know . . . if a God reveals himself in some way . . . through physical evidence or miraculous revelation (even a voice from within would do it if I was confident of my sanity) . . . and that God made sense to me in the context of the world around me . . . I would gladly choose him.

  Exactly how I feel about the situation. I just want to add concerning the last 5 words in that quote, I have uttered those words too. But if a being like that emerged and was anything related to the bible god, I would sooner die than believe and worship. At this point things have gone on much too long and too many games have been played for me to be involved.
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  107

  Video of my Circuit Assembly visit!

  by serenitynow! in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-ttprya0kk.

  this is the video my apostabuddy put together about last week's caper.

  enjoy!.

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  startingover

  I can understand why you do this, it's very brave, and I'm sure you get a good feeling doing it. I have no doubt that many of us would love to do the same thing. But, IMO, the end result is that you are reinforcing the beliefs of most everyone in the crowd. I think their applause proves that.

  One could argue that it is only by efforts such as this that change will take place. May be that's true in some situations, but I think when you are dealing with people who are under mind control, this probably isn't the best method.

  I bet whoever put those cards in the programs was having a hard time containing themselves watching them deal with you. I'm surprised they didn't try to make contact with you at the end.
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  7

  Much Belated "Thank You" to Hillary_Step and Gregor

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i was among those christians who fought against your 'tirades' against us - sometimes in rather fierce battles behind the scenes, sometimes on public threads here.. but, about two or three years ago - after hillary had already departed the forum, and years after my discussions with gregor - it hit me just how right the two of you were.

  perhaps hillary will never see this - maybe gregor has also left the forum for the most part.

  i don't come here often, but when i do i find myself on the side of the battle they occupied then.

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  startingover
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  1

  Atlantis

  by startingover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you have a pm.

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  startingover

  You have a PM
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  32

  The Watchtower Loses Action Against Bank (Fifth Third Bank)

  by TJ Curioso in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the watchtower loses action against the bank "fifth third bank" - ohio, usa.. .

  see here all the details and the final verdict:.

  http://www.leagle.com/xmlresult.aspx?xmldoc=in%20ohco%2020111006735.xml&docbase=cslwar3-2007-curr.

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  startingover

  I can just imagine what the response would be if a JW was in the WT's position and they wrote to the WT for advice. I bet they would tell them not to pursue it so as to not bring reproach on Jehovah's name.

  This really says what they are all about, actions sure speak louder than words.
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  7

  Finding Serenity and Enduring in Our Struggle After Learning “The Truth About The Truth” (TTATT)

  by Greybeard in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there is a prayer often recited by people in various types of recovery programs called the serenity prayer.

  here the short version:.

  god grant me the serenity .

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  startingover

  If you are wanting some sort of panacea, then I think you are chasing a fantasy. It's been said, life sucks and then you die. In my case, coming to grips with this life being all there is, was not easy, but I have felt much more serenity since I took god out of the equation. Worshipping someone who will kill you if you don't is not condusive to serenity IMO.

  When you say Christ will take care of it in the future in his due time, how is that any different than the WT paradise carrot? I'm convinced that many people cannot deal with the harsh reality we all face and grasp onto the fantasy that they are most comfortable with.
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  35

  Why have you remained theists?

  by Silent_Scream in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i realize many on this forum are atheist, and theres many threads to show why.

  some believe creationist lack knowledge or understanding and that we are too ignorant to realize there isn't a creator.. i have studied (not in depth) first year college science, and am studying medical/health currently.

  i am also very interested in astronomy, and have learned a little in that area.

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  startingover

  Greybeard,

  What insults? I guess it touches a sore spot comparing you to the JW's. Think about it though, you're advocating the same thing. Won over without a word, remember?

  You really think your "yet" comment was a complement? IMO Jesus has your mind a bit twisted if you do.

  Edited to add: Go ahead, make my day
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  35

  Why have you remained theists?

  by Silent_Scream in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i realize many on this forum are atheist, and theres many threads to show why.

  some believe creationist lack knowledge or understanding and that we are too ignorant to realize there isn't a creator.. i have studied (not in depth) first year college science, and am studying medical/health currently.

  i am also very interested in astronomy, and have learned a little in that area.

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  startingover

  I agree Greybeard. Except...do you realize how much you sound like the JW's with this statement:

  "Our loving response could be the only thing that wins them over to Christ"

  I'm glad I belong to a group that can use things like logic and reason and not emotion.

  And then this little gem:

  In my opinion, the true definition of an atheist is "a person that does not believe in God yet."

  I'll put up with you, even though with that statement you come across nicely as a condescending a-hole. Brother.
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  23

  The Watchtower's Delicate Mastery Of Deception

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you gotta admire the skill manifest in the watchtower's deception skills.

  don't kid yourself, even the gestapo, in internal documents found after the war, found the magazines to be well crafted in the field of propaganda.. the latest deceptions?

  well, there's the nov. awake magazine with its cover asking, "is belief in a creator reasonable".

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  startingover

  I hope this hasn't died already. I just sat down with some popcorn.
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  82

  Are YOU a Believer, Atheist, Agnostic, Active JW or WHAT?

  by Greybeard in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  sorry if this has been asked before but i would love to know the current ratio on this forum.. i'm a believer/christian former jw for 45 years... born in .

  what are you now and what were you?.

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  startingover

  So why do you ask?