Posts by Seeker

53

What is "Right?"

by Farkel in

jw
friends

i responded to your comments on another post, but i feel this issue is just too important and deserves its own thread.. -----------------------------------------------------.

: even the most righteous believer of god would tend to quote abraham: is the judge of all the earth not going to do what is right?

(gen 18:25).

Seeker

lauralisa,

I found your comments interesting, and I'd like to ask you a couple of questions. I'm being sincere.

My take on this account was much different: it seemed to be a encouraging example of how God would take into consideration the hurt, confused, and scared feelings of a mere human and accommodate them, whether they were "right" or "wrong".

Does this mean you think what Abraham was asking of God was not "right" in the absolute sense, but only in the imperfect human perspective sense?

(I guess with the "catch-all" resurrection hope thing, I was able to reconcile confusion over the doing away with entire cities of innocents. They would all come back and have ice cream any time they wanted in paradise conditions.)

I've heard this argument before, and here is the response I usually make that I have yet to see answered: In that case, with the resurrection hope and all, shall we have you killed right now? After all, you're going to be resurrected and eat ice cream anyway, so what's your problem?

18

Flat earth myths of Alan F

by Rex B13 in

jw
friends

man, even pagan man, has always known that the earth was a sphere!

the hebrews knew it first, because god told them six times in the old testament that the earth was a sphere.

that was sufficient for believers!

Seeker

Hmm...real information...OK, I'll bite:

Wisdom 7
17 For he hath given me certain knowledge of the things that
are, namely, to know how the world was made, and the
operation of the elements:

OK, so God is going to explain some things about the creation of the earth, and the way it works.

18 The beginning, ending, and midst of the times:

Perhaps talking about seasons.

the alterations of the turning of the sun, and the change of
seasons:
19 The circuits of years, and the positions of stars:

The sun turning around the earth, like they used to believe back then.

So we have an erroneous belief about the sun, and nothing about the shape of the earth that I can see.

Hmm, that sure sounds like earth orbiting the sun but then I suppose you say "they imagined it like a pizza pie whirling around the heavenly bodies, along with the stars."

Actually, it says the sun 'turned', not the earth. How do you see the earth orbiting, when it says the sun 'turning'? And how does this say anything about the earth being a sphere? Serious questions, by the way. I really don't understand how you make those interpretations based on those verses.

5

Anointed?.... Only in your head

by Patriot in

jw
friends

hi to all the old friends.

its been to long, about a year since my last post as " maverick".

anyway "hi" to the old timers like amazing, seeker, esmeralda, m2u, truthexodus, unclebruce,worf and many more too many to list.

Seeker

Hi Maverick/Patriot! Nice to see you again.

You bring out an excellent point. Although I've known that most anointed are virtually ignored by the GB, despite their supposedly being part of the FDS, and although I know that most articles are written by non-anointed ones, I hadn't yet connected that fact to the FDS teaching. It is funny, isn't it, that those who are supposed to be doing the feeding are actually being fed by the great crowd.

Truly the FDS teaching is a sham.

13

La la la la la America

by philo in

jw
friends

after all the deserved congratulations, lately heaped upon america and americans in tr's thread, i've been wondering about a few things, which i couldn't figure from the discussion.. 1.why do some feel the need to talk up the greatness of the us, when this fact seems so self-evident?

is it just the jingoism which comes along with a world empire?.

2. do any american's here feel embarrassed about their government's foreign policies regarding: the new international criminal court (presently trying miloshovic), the reneging on the kyoto carbon-reduction treaty, or the high hand taken on sdi?.

Seeker

1.Why do some feel the need to talk up the greatness of the US, when this fact seems so self-evident? Is it just the jingoism which comes along with a world empire?

Why do humans always look for ways to make themselves look better than others by grasping onto totally irrelevant factors? "My skin color is better!" "My language is better!" "My country is better" "My part of the state is better than your part of the state!" "My part of the city is better than your part of the city!"

Infantilism, all of it. Nationalism is merely the adult version of kindergarten kids fighting over the sandbox.

2. Do any American's here feel embarrassed about their government's foreign policies regarding: the new international criminal court (presently trying Miloshovic), the reneging on the Kyoto carbon-reduction treaty, or the high hand taken on SDI?

Many Americans hate the way the government acts. They see what is happening to the environment and feel ashamed at the way their politicians have been bought by corporate interests. They also realize that SDI can never work and that it isn't supposed to work, but is merely a kickback to the defense industry.

And other Americans believe whatever the right-wing tells them to believe, and therefore feel no embarrassment whatsoever about such things.

My personal opinion? All empires die. The British empire faded long ago. So too, the American superpower is fading; it just hasn't been noticed yet how many countries now view America as irrelevant. Within 50 years, America will be where Britain is today. It's the way all empires go.

69

Christmas Star = Satan?!

by reagan_oconnor in

jw
friends

i was talking with my husband the other day about the jw's belief that the "christmas star" that guided the magi to christ was the doings of satan.

he didn't believe me; this is what i found in the "my book of bible stories" (copied verbatim from cd-rom).

who do you think made that new star to shine?

Seeker

I think that quote contains their reasoning on the matter. No, there is no scripture that says it, but if you reason the way the WTS reasonsed you could come up with that conclusion.

The real purpose of this, of course, was isolationism. The WTS loves to poke holes in what Christendom takes for granted, as a way of making themselves look unique. They do it with the cross, with birthdays, and even with the birth of Christ.

5

And This Afternoons Speaker Is: (Drum Roll).....

by Englishman in

jw
friends

come on, you extrovert guys, be honest now.. wasn't giving a public talk a heady experience?.

didn't you get a real buzz just from being able to keep your audiences eyes riveted on your every gesture?.

did you get a high from suddenly pausing and making your listeners wait in breathless anticiption for your next word?.

Seeker

I enjoyed speaking, but it wasn't that much of an ego trip to me. I am my own best (worst) critic, and if I did a good job, I knew it, and if I did a bad job, I knew it. What others told me had little effect on me. Most of the comments were insincere anyway, and made me uncomfortable:

"Brother, that was the best talk I ever heard!" [No, it wasn't]

My favorite comments came from the little kids. They were the ones who had specific comments to make:

"I really liked when you talked about such-and-so. That was funny."

or

"I'm going to try to improve in such-and-so. Thanks."

Those were great comments because they came from their little hearts with no notion of buttering up the visiting speaker.

Did I get a high from pausing and making my listeners wait in breathless anticipation? No. Did I get a high when I could see them intelligently following along the natural rhythm of the talk? Yes. When I saw appropriate facial expressions, and could see some were getting it, I enjoyed that.

Was being an elder a great big ego trip? Not really. Didn't care for prominence.

Was there a touch of power? Of course. Did I like that power? No. Did I use it? Not usually.

In summary, I enjoyed public speaking, and tried to do a great job, and an innovate job, and there are a few times looking back when the stars aligned and everything came together perfectly so that I gave the best talk I could possibly give that day. I look back fondly on those days, for those were the days when I knew I did my best.

10

Need Help...............

by deceit in

jw
friends

hi all, i have been lurking around this site for quite some time and enjoy reading all the posts.

but now i need some help........ me and my wife have not gone to a meeting for over 5 months now.

my parents are full bore jw's, father is an elder *shiver*.

Seeker

welcome, deceit.

The suggestions given so far have been good ones, such as the lack of love seen in so many congregations. How about trapping him by asking him to define the right religion, and then show how JWs don't apply. Lack of love, for instance, and the ideas in this thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=8451&site=3

If they can't get any major prophecy right (and they haven't), what does that '97 quote really mean, then?

If they don't have love among themselves, not the real kind, what does that say about them?

There are other WT quotes that say 'if a religion lies to you, it can't be true.' If so, and considering the misquotes they like to make, as well as the way they absolutely do lie about their 1914 past, what does that say about them?

Whatever standards your dad comes up with, use that against him.

In a kind, calm, logical manner, of course! Play it by ear, see how it's going. If he shuts down, stop. If he listens, keep prodding, using some of the above as guidelines.

19

NaziUFOIlluminatiRANDCORP

by sf in

jw
friends

here also, you will find links that take you to places that will keep you reading for hours (including also videotapes):.

Seeker

sf,

All right, I've calmed down a bit, and want to tone down this conversation. Do whatever you want to do; I'll find a way to cope with the results.

19

NaziUFOIlluminatiRANDCORP

by sf in

jw
friends

here also, you will find links that take you to places that will keep you reading for hours (including also videotapes):.

Seeker

What I choose to post, has never ever had anything to do with YOU.

Nor did I say it did, so why bring this up? Instead, I am saying that every time you give credence to this garbage, you harm my efforts. I am sending friends and family to this site in the hopes that they will see that the WTS is wrong. If they see information about lizard-men and Illuminati controlling the WTS, it will make them think the WTS is right after all. That opposers are either liars or blinded by the devil. I don't want this to happen. It would pain me.

You are more than welcome to post this information as you see fit. And I will continue to denounce this stuff so that lurkers can see that not all opposers buy into this garbage.

Do you really think people are clicking these links and reading them?

Of course.

Why? Why would they?

Because you are a respected member of this community, with a good reputation.

It's all bullshit anyway, TO YOU SEEKER, right?

To anyone who reads it, which I have.

So what are you so worked up over?

Because I have loved ones I'm trying to help, and you are harming my efforts.

How about telling me the "truth" about your irritation regarding what I have chosen to research? Is it really the topic?

Not, it's a lack of critical thinking about any topic. There is a ring to truth; we learned this when we left the WTS. But if you uncritically push anything and everything, you cause harm.

Andjust what is it that I am interfering with?

My life. My friends. My family.

You got a top secret project up your sleeve? Is my "schtuff" (which you've already concluded is FALSE) gonna eff your plans up?

I hope not, but it might. You know how fragile JWs are. All it takes is one wacked-out link to send them screaming back for "Mommy."

Wow, I must be on to something then or why do you want me silent?!!

I don't want you silent, and never said I wanted you silent. I keep saying you are free to post whatever you want. Don't you read what I say? All I want, and I can only ask this of you, not demand it, is that you think before you post. If you see something that seems a little dodgy, why not at least say so when you post a link?

Why don't you get all that nonsense off the net then? Why aren't you campaigning to silence the WEBSITE OWNERS? THEY WROTE IT AND DOMAINED IT, not lil' ol me.

I believe in free speech. If they want to write garbage, that is their right, and I will defend that right to the end.

Why are you on MY ass??

Because you are the ones giving credence and prominence to the garbage. Someone lurking here, who doesn't know any better, may think you are pushing this information (actually I think you are pushing it and then hiding behind your "I don't judge" statement when people complain), think that this is valid info.

Seems you should be focused on banning any of those sites from even being viewed by ANYONE. Such "garbage" belongs" bagged", right?

Of course not! I don't believe in censorship! All I want is for you to think before you post. Find a site that claims Henschel has sex with rabbits? Guess what? It ain't fit to publicize cuz it ain't true. So if you find a site that has no credible evidence, either reject it as the garbage that it is instead of abdicating your responsibilty to use your critical thinking ability, or post it but state that you found no credible evidence on that site but here it is anyway. If instead you just post is with a "Man, check this stuff out!" post with an extreme icon, you give credence to stuff that should have been left under a rock.

Yes, I'm very angry at you, for you are harming my efforts to help my friends and family. I may be able to overcome your abdication of responsibility, but it's harder on me. So just as I defend your right to post garbage, allow me the right to point out it's garbage if you don't.

19

NaziUFOIlluminatiRANDCORP

by sf in

jw
friends

here also, you will find links that take you to places that will keep you reading for hours (including also videotapes):.

Seeker

skally, you are allowed to post your thoughts. So am I. If you should be allowed that freedom, so should I.

Please, respectfully, do not concern yourSELF with MY life.

I don't. However, when you post this garbage, you impact MY life negatively. That's why I appeal to you to use your mind before you post stuff. You hurt my efforts when you post this stuff indiscriminantly. Therefore, every time YOU negatively impact MY life, I will ask you again to please think before you post.

Thank you.