Need Help...............

deceit

Hi all, I have been lurking around this site for quite some time and enjoy reading all the posts.

But now I need some help.......

Me and my wife have not gone to a meeting for over 5 months now. My parents are FULL BORE JW's, father is an ELDER *shiver*. I wont go into to much detail as to why we have decided not to go anymore but the 'generations' issue had a lot to do with it.

Now, my parents know I dont attend as often and are just pretending like everything is fine when we see each other, but I can sense that a big conversation is about to come up between me and my Father to the tune of 'Are you going build your spirituality up and attend meetings or are you going to fall into the hands of the world and put your family to shame?'

I have read both books by Raymond Franz and there is just soooooooo much information that I can use, but what sort of topics should I bring up that will make HIM think, rather than just say that its apostate crap? He is quick and smart (trained well by the WBTS).

Just trying to do it in a subtle way where he can see I have really thought about my decision as to why I'm SURE Jehovahs Witnesses are NOT the right religion.

How do you's recommend making him see the 'LIGHT'!?

Thanks in advance

NEVER TO BE DECEIVED AGAIN

Kismet

One subtle thing you could bring up with him if you decide to do so...

Lack of true love in the congregation. In a nutshell you can't seem to help notice that people (bros & sisters) just don't care anymore. You look around the Hall and can't help but wonder if Jehovah has removed his blessing..and its not just your hall but others too are noticing the same thing. Could He be rejecting us like he did the Nation of Isreal.

What would it take for him to reject us (JW's). This could open the door to finding out if your father has any pet issues that could be further explored.

It also provides a somewhat legitimate 'reason' as to your lack of activity.

Whatever you decide I wish you well!

Kismet

think41self

Hi Deceit, and welcome to the board!

Hmmmmm, your question is a tricky one. Since you know your Father better than I do, and how he will most likely respond, I will not make any recommendations on what specifically to say. I would be very careful though about what you admit to him.

I would not, under any circumstances, admit to him that you have read Ray Franz's books...nor that you have been on this board or any others. If you do, he will automatically shut out your words, believing that you have just been corrupted by the "apostates" and not thinking on your own. Not to mention, if you admitted those things to him, he could turn you in to the elders. It has happened before. Put all your thoughts into your own words...and try reasoning with him from there. Let us know how it is going!

Tracy

cnn77

Deceit,

The answer you are seeking all depends on what you hope to achieve.....

Do you just want to be left alone to drift away?

Do you want to have the gunslinging match?

Do you want to convince him to leave the JWs?

You need to first figure out what outcome it is you want to achieve.....if you do not know this BEFORE you speak to him then you should rather just avoid the issue of speaking to him.

Please post back your answer and I can try to help with some suggestions.

RedhorseWoman

Deceit, as the others have pointed out, this decision will have to be yours--you know your parents better than anyone. The major piece of advice I can give is not to hit your father between the eyes with too much information too fast. That would most likely only cause the door to slam on your relationship. Plant seeds (just as the WTBTS would suggest) and water them at the opportune time. Allow your parents to come to their own conclusions. Point out things that puzzle you, and things that have caused you to stumble. Assure them that you have not left God, but that right now you cannot attend the meetings because there are issues that you need to sort out for yourself.

Whatever you do, try not to break the lines of communication.

deceit

Kismet, good point thanks........

think41self, he already knows I have read literature other than the WBTS crap, he also knows that I am very smart, he would never involve other elders as long as what I say is between him and me. Elders from my cong have a fair idea I'm not interested in there 'TALK' hehe.......

cnn77, I want my parents to respect my reasons for not wanting to be part of the WBTS just as I respect them wanting to stay, I know this sounds like it can happen only in a perfect world but I have to try. He mentioned to me once that even if this wasnt the RIGHT religion, its the closest one to it so he's happy to go along with that, typical stuborn temprament *sigh*

cnn77

Deceit wrote: "..I want my parents to respect my reasons for not wanting to be part of the WBTS just as I respect them wanting to stay, I know this sounds like it can happen only in a perfect world but I have to try. He mentioned to me once that even if this wasnt the RIGHT religion, its the closest one to it so he's happy to go along with that, typical stuborn temprament *sigh*"

Deceit - I think you might find yourself in a bit of a trick bag:

Even if your parents do want to respect you they will not be a llowed to. In my personal opinion you run a serious risk of being DFed if you are too forceful. It is better just to fade away and then work on just your parents over time.

The risk of being shunned should not be taken lightly... I am sure that others will criticize me for that view point but they probably have a totally different set of circumstances. You have to ascertain what is of greater importance: 1. Proving your point that the WTBS is not the "truth" or 2. not being part of the organization but still being able to socialize with your parents.

whatever choice you make there is a consequence......

deceit

cnn77, I know exactly what you're saying and your right.

I have been doing all the prep work on my end, sowing seeds ect ect. He likes a good argument so I want to say something that really gets him thinking, something that makes him stumble on his own words.

Seeker

welcome, deceit.

The suggestions given so far have been good ones, such as the lack of love seen in so many congregations. How about trapping him by asking him to define the right religion, and then show how JWs don't apply. Lack of love, for instance, and the ideas in this thread:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=8451&site=3

If they can't get any major prophecy right (and they haven't), what does that '97 quote really mean, then?

If they don't have love among themselves, not the real kind, what does that say about them?

There are other WT quotes that say 'if a religion lies to you, it can't be true.' If so, and considering the misquotes they like to make, as well as the way they absolutely do lie about their 1914 past, what does that say about them?

Whatever standards your dad comes up with, use that against him.

In a kind, calm, logical manner, of course! Play it by ear, see how it's going. If he shuts down, stop. If he listens, keep prodding, using some of the above as guidelines.

nelly136

Personally (only my opinion) spend more time buiding new friendships and social circle(handy cushion for bumpy rides), if you've been out a short time the euphoria of freedom can carry you away a little and in return you want to share it with your family and drag them out too...in reality they may not want to be 'saved'
In their eyes at best at the moment youre probably 'spiritually weak'
theyre going to be waiting for you to show signs of 'apostasy' and 'worldy behaviour' and the shutters are probably well oiled at this point ready to drop down the moment you say things that dont fit in with the grand scheme of jdub thinking.
I'm not saying dont plant the occassional seed of doubt just take it easy and dont put them in the position where they have to choose between you and their beliefs, its hard enough adapting to life outside the borg, without heaping extra pressures on top
nelly

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